I feel like there's not enough easily accessible information in the wild about what you're supposed to do with old electronics, and especially batteries. You're not supposed to throw any type of battery in the trash, let alone ones that get really angry when abused. And places that used to take old batteries seem to be refusing them now. I have a small box of old batteries I've been looking to dispose of and I'm running out of places to try and give them to.
It especially doesn't help that electronics, including with non-replaceable batteries, including those that get angry when abused, are being designed to be disposable to begin with.
And yeah, I know there's a high level of apathy about the problem with the masses. Even though the information can be, for the most part, found, people just don't care enough.
I think part of the problem is that the rules are just kinda... stupid? There is absolutely no reason why regular alkaline batteries can't end up in household garbage. They don't contain heavy metals or anything else that'd make them dangerous.
The rules are basically like this because the regulators figured you're too dumb to know which types of batteries are bad for the environment (lead-acid, the now-obsolete Ni-Cd, less significantly NiMH). And sure, better-tailored rules would confuse some folks, but I bet that compliance would be higher for the really bad stuff.
Alkaline batteries contain manganese dioxide, which is certainly not as bad as the rechargeable types but still is a health hazard in enough quantity. "Heavy duty" (zinc-carbon) has the same concern AFAIK
> There is absolutely no reason why regular alkaline batteries can't end up in household garbage.
Years ago mercury was common in alkalines, they were banned in that use case in 1996: https://www.epa.gov/mercury/mercury-batteries The collection bins that were in my local grocery stores went away within a few years of that.
With scrap batteries being worth 5-50 cents per pound it would be worth just sticking a handful of these, but labeled as "used battery drop off point" in high visibility areas. It won't stop people from maliciously throwing away batteries but would remove the lazy factor.
I hate to break it to you, but "clothing and shoe donation" bins in mall parking lots are generally commercial enterprises, rather than non-profits or charities, and I suppose people get good feels from dropping off there while they're shopping, but the community would be better served if you gave direct to a charity such as St. Vincent de Paul Society Thrift Stores.
As for scrap batteries being tossed into a bin at a mall, I'm not seeing that end well. It is more or less trivial to look up recycle facilities in your area and take stuff to the appropriate drop-off. Personally, I take eWaste into Best Buy or Staples, and my own city government runs a large recycling center that will take almost anything.
same. my local drop off is one day a month at the local prison which is ~25 minutes away. and commercial store that takes items for recycling is twice that distance.
I assume because it's "next door" to the landfill, so a lot of the logistics is already nearby. It also doesnt interfere with a bunch of civilians showing up and getting in the way of large, commercial trucks and regular landfill traffic.
Even if you know you're not supposed to just toss batteries in the trash, getting them to a recycling center can be a pain. Each borough runs, I believe, a single hazardous items drop off day per year -- are people really supposed to hold onto batteries for an average of six months?
It turns out that Staples, Lowe's, and Home Depot will generally take your batteries for you, but I've never seen this advertised anywhere.
Ironically in my area at least (NC) this is handled better in my parent's rural area than it is in the [small] city where I live with city garbage and recycling pick up. In their county (which is all rural) each community has a small facility that collects garbage and recycling, and each facility has collection bins for electronics, batteries, florescent bulbs, etc. I just googled to see what I'm supposed to do with these items, and apparently the city holds a "hazardous waste day" once a year which is usually a madhouse... so I'm guessing that 75+% of that stuff ends up in the normal garbage.
I'm from NC as well, and moved from a major city to a rural area. For me, both have similar disposal options. In the city, you had to go to a trash drop-off center to dispose of batteries (same place you'd take used oil or other hazardous waste, as well as regular trash or even yard debris). I think the difference is, in the city you have trash pickup and can't just toss batteries in with the trash or recycle. Whereas out in the country you have to take everything to a drop-off center, so you're probably more likely to dispose of batteries properly since you don't need to take an extra trip to do so.
Yeah, there's quite a few smaller municipalities that hold a hazard day or a e-waste collection day. But yeah, they're normally crazy. I wish there were more common collection areas, especially for batteries. Post offices or libraries with collection boxes that are "safe" would be great. Boxes that won't melt, will vent pressure, and maybe filled with a bunch of sand that the batteries get buried in.
Also there's a ton of e-waste that's still usable! e-waste days at regular intervals where people could trade could result in a lot of stuff being reused.
> I feel like there's not enough easily accessible information in the wild about what you're supposed to do with old electronics, and especially batteries.
Here in Norway it is in principle rather easy. The law requires shops that sell electronics, batteries, light bulbs and such to accept and handle such goods for recycling.
So, if you can buy it there, you can deliver it for recycling there.
There's also plenty of information about this in various ads, physical and social media, so hard to not know.
Yet people throw batteries and whatnot right in the trash, or worse. Some people just don't care about others, is my conclusion.
In Brazil where I live, there are laws requiring battery manufacturers to collect (almost all) spent batteries, preventing them from getting in landfills. So finding battery disposal bins in buildings and so on has become common. (classic market failure!)
I put all electronic stuff that has no resale value in a box and then once a year drop it at an Apple store. I trust Apple to do the right thing as they have a reputation to uphold. They take 3rd party stuff as well and batteries etc.
"It’s always best to consult with your local waste management service to learn the best and safest way to deal with dead batteries. One thing they will certainly not advise is putting them in plastic soft drink bottles and chucking them in canals.." https://japantoday.com/category/crime/kyoto-man-arrested-for...
In theory every store that sells rechargeable batteries in NYC is also supposed to accept them for disposal.
I've found that occasionally true... but as you say for things like laptops without removable batteries it feels a little weird to just leave them in the piles by the door that many of these stores have.
In San Mateo, CA we were instructed to dispose of batteries by simply placing them atop the bin in a clearly labeled plastic bag on the usual trash pick-up day.
Recology was the organization handling the recycling IIRC...
In Finland I think even the smaller stores have a red carboard a box hidden somewhere... For electronics bit harder, but still should not be impossible.
Don't even get me started on trying to dispose of long fluorescent tubes. I've got an eight-footer I can't get rid of. There is absolutely NOBODY that takes them for recycling in my area.
> Don't even get me started on trying to dispose of long fluorescent tubes.
I replaced those in my garage with some LED lights, long overdue. I put the light fixtures on the curb a scrapper came and picked them up quickly...but left all the lights.
I found out the local Home Depot took them on certain days, so I loaded them up in the van. The wrong way to do it would be to put a long strip of packaging tape along the light and smash it...then put it in a bag.
I'm here wondering how "wrong" that wrong way would be... I have a few tubes to get rid of as well, and my local trash/recycle drop-off won't take them.
It is difficult to figure out what to do with old Li-ion batteries, some local stores accept certain types for recycling, but I have a few larger batteries from ebikes and power tools that they won't take, and I can't figure out what to do with them.
For now they just sit in the garage.
I would like to see some kind of system where the cost of recycling is paid up-front when the battery is purchased, and there are easy to find locations to drop them off, or to mail them for smaller ones.
In Denmark there are electronic waste bins in apartment buildings (with the usual recycling bins), and placed somewhere around the neighbourhood for houses. There's also a steel cupboard for hazardous waste.
I notice there's a limit of 500g for batteries, so large ones should be taken to the neighbourhood recycling centre or a place that sells them.
At the very minimum we should mandate the stores that sell products that include batteries to have collection points for the products and their batteries.
I bought a power bank from Best Buy that was recalled, and when I tried to return it for disposal, I was told to look for local recycling companies.
That's how it is implemented in Germany: If you sell batteries or battery-containing devices, you have to take batteries in for recycling. (Now I wouldn't necessarily expect every tiny corner store that sells single-use vapes to do a proper job of that, but normal store chains will do so)
Thats a smart system. In Sweden and other countries there is pant, pantamera "container deposit system" you recycle aluminium cans in the store. One reason it takes a lot of energy to melt aluminium which you use to make aluminium cans.
You should get money back when recycling electronics so there is an economic incentive todo recycling.
The FDNY is on a tear against e-bike batteries this year, after numerous fires and several deaths attributed to lithium-ion battery charging. Several charging locations have been shut down, and commercial landlords are required to post warnings/many have banned ebikes from their buildings entirely.
Now, FDNY and sanitation need to do something ACTUALLY ADEQUATE to solve the problem.
IOW, they must make it CONVENIENT to properly dispose of batteries
>>introduced a bill to require the sanitation department to develop a plan for educating New Yorkers about the proper disposal of these batteries, including holding regular disposal events.
>>The city has a dedicated hazardous waste disposal site in each borough — but the hours of operation for these sites are limited.
These measures are a dumb waste of time. Everyone already has a list a mile-and-a-half long of things they should do, and properly disposing of batteries is already on it. Many of the things on everyone's list never get done.
If they want it done, they need to make it easy to do. Heck, just hang some small-ish double-walled steel bins on the trash trucks, and ask people to put their batteries next to their trans bins instead of inside them. At least that'll be a start until a more permanent solution is designed.
They are a major inconvenience for everyone. Only the most conscientious people who have the extra time will do it.
My city offers a big festival day about 4 times per year, but these are not exclusive. I think they are more expansive where they will accept all kinds of things, even clothes, and third-party recyclers are on-site to accept and process them.
The actual recycling center is open about 4 days a week and accepting a lot of nasty stuff on a regular basis. Thank God for that. In-city ID is mandatory.
I feel like a general-purpose law of the form: "if you sell it, you must recycle it" would nip a lot of this crap in the bud. For instance: my local paint store will happily sell you barrel's-full of paint that is then well-nigh impossible for me to dispose of; same for gas, batteries, plastic bags, ...
I've long thought that the cost of proper disposal for all products should be paid for at the time of manufacture as a tax and built into the price, and then sanitation services are paid for out of this fund ahead of time.
We need everything to be disposed of properly, whoever that responsibility ultimately falls to, so it's unfortunate that we charge consumers at the end of the line for disposal. It's leaky and creates a perverse incentive for pollution, dumping, trash burning, etc.
And products that are harder to recycle or dispose of would cost more than cleaner alternatives, creating gentle economic pressure to produce and buy more sustainable goods.
Right now, we might not even have a plan for proper disposal before something is sold. This seems to have happened with electronics.
I like this, too, but I think it's hard to find out what the clearing-cost for the market is top-down. Especially for things "like recycling". Instead, I'd just make it a market problem. The point is to find a good balance between regulation ("recycling costs this much") and natural market conditions ("fuck it! throw it in the ocean!").
A deposit refund [0] similar to what’s already in place for bottles and cans in some states might be the way to go if enough states/counties would actually implement it.
It allows for consumers to consider the “full cost” of being inconsiderate and not recycling properly while not “actually” increasing the cost of the product if they properly dispose of it. It also created a secondary market for scrapers/recyclers to collect and deposit items so there’s another chance it won’t enter the waste steam.
The deposit refund system also needs to be worth the effort. My state has a $0.05 deposit on bottles and cans. I used to save the original packaging, put the empties back in the box, and take the boxes to the the customer service counter at the grocery store. It was worth it for a little pocket change.
Now? It's all mechanized. I have to feed cans one by one into a machine that reads the barcode to be sure it is a product the store sells. Different machines accept cans vs bottles. This is a slow process. You often need to wait in line for each machine. Sometimes the machines are broken, or sometimes even a working machine fails to read the barcode and rejects 10% of your cans or bottles. When you are done, you take printed slips from the machines to customer service and wait in line to exchange them for cash.
It's not worth it. I still recycle, but I toss cans and bottles into my recycling bin and forgo the deposit.
Back when I lived in Oregon, they just paid some kid minimum wage to sort it. Those guys were fast at sorting too. They could get through 2 or 3 30 gallon bags in just a few minutes.
I don't understand the question. Proposal: if you sell it, you must recycle it. Question: how would an online shop do this? Obvious answer: by accepting the to-be-recycled product, just like an offline store? Whether they do the actual recycling themselves or contract a third party is up to them of course, but that's the same with any local kiosk that happens to sell batteries.
(Not saying I think it's a good or bad proposal btw. It sounds good, but there's going to be uncountable cases where the original retailer does not exist anymore, or you don't know where you bought something, or you've moved, etc. Whether to just accept that and consider it a net win, or if a deposit system would work better, no idea. I just don't see the problem with online stores having to accept goods they sold for recycling.)
It's done by the first major municipality in my county (a million+ city); there's just the one, and it's an hour+ drive to get there. The neighboring counties decided it was politically expedient to not have a hazardous waste disposal site.
the reason people dump batteries is because doing so the proper way is often onerous. In my parents locale, you have to contact the sanitation department ahead of time, arrange a drop off time, head to the place, provide ID (to confirm you're not from somewhere else?) , etc. A lot easier to just throw it in the trash.
> because doing so the proper way is often onerous
Or badly publicized. The Goodwill around the corner is a designated battery drop-off site. You would never know it without specifically looking that up.
If you could just throw "Battery recycling" into Apple/Google Maps or OpenStreetMap (which has Tag:amenity=recycling and recycling:batteries for the purpose), I think you'd get a lot of these issues resolved. None of these offer reasonable results when I look this up near me.
People know they're supposed to recycle batteries. My old employer had a bin of dead cell phones, laptop batteries, and power tool batteries (and people kept throwing in alkalines); my parents inexplicably had a cardboard box fire hazard for a similar purpose but don't know where to bring them.
One tool that does this is https://www.call2recycle.org/locator/ (they might get would get better coverage in some demographics with "text2recycle" or "websearch2recycle" domains). Why the data isn't in the tools people typically use to find this information, I don't know - it seems to be a political rather than technical problem.
There's a Lowes, Home Depot, Comprenew, Goodwill, and sanitary transfer station that all take these batteries for free with a minimum of fuss, and are all within 5 miles of both of the aforementioned boxes of spicy pillows. But you have to know that to use them.
> If you could just throw "Battery recycling" into Apple/Google Maps or OpenStreetMap (which has Tag:amenity=recycling and recycling:batteries for the purpose), I think you'd get a lot of these issues resolved. None of these offer reasonable results when I look this up near me
> the reason people dump batteries is because doing so the proper way is often onerous.
Another likely reason, and likely the biggest one as well, is: how many folks, outside of the HN/techie crowd, are even aware of what "kind" of battery is in their various devices and is even aware that there are special rules for many battery types?
Yes, the user guides (if one is even provided) do often have a page about "do not throw in the trash" -- but how many actually read the guides, much less the "warnings" page? And, more importantly, how many even know where the guide is at the end-of-life for the device when they are throwing it away in order to look up what special handling is needed?
Yes, there's the trashcan with the slash icon on the back of the device. How many of the non-HN/techie crowd even know what that icon means to register enough that there is something 'different' about this item vs. everything else they throw away? And, how many even think to look on the back vs. just tossing the device in a trash bin?
> how many folks, outside of the HN/techie crowd, are even aware of what "kind" of battery is in their various devices and is even aware that there are special rules for many battery types?
why do they bother needing to know? If it has a battery : "Right this way!" .
and more specifically -- nearly every 'high-tech' device of any kind has a battery that requires precaution during the post-consumer phase -- is it even worth distinguishing what kind of battery goes where at this point for the consumer, aside from an allowed luxury of chucking something carelessly into the trash?
I know they are small batteries but I have to wonder how much hazardous shit is being thrown away with disposable vapes. Especially ones that get recharged a few times before being tossed with a charge still held.
(In the Southern US) Its bad enough with alkaline/lead acid batteries being tossed in the waste system. We really need programs to deal with battery waste. When I worked at Radioshack in the 2000s we were one of the only local places people could drop battery waste off at for recycling and now those are all long gone.
I'll have to check my local one, online it says they do accept cellphone and rechargeable batteries. I'm not sure how they feel about batteries still contained with-in a vape. Local medical cannabis dispensary had zero leads when I asked about a recycle program for disposable THC vapes they sell that aren't able to be separated from their batteries.
Perhaps a used battery purchase scheme would be a good solution? There is some value to the used batteries, if the city paid a premium over that, the problem would most likely decrease significantly. By paying more per kilo for the larger batteries (which pose the greatest risk of injury), city workers would be much safer. The city could even create a market for the recycled Lithium by requiring its use in equipment supplied to the city
I think that’s a great idea but speaking from personal experience with family and friends, the biggest obstacle seems to be effort. Especially for sufficiently well-off individuals, it isn’t financial motivation but rather having clear, easily accessible, and widely known alternatives that require minimum extra effort or travel that would probably do more to alleviate situation.
I would like to think that the well off would behave in a manner similar to how people in Germany who can't be bothered taking their bottles back for pfand do: They leave them beside the bin where people who want to can collect them and cash them in
Cities have totally fallen down on the job of disposing of hazardous waste. We store all of ours for the once a year collection in another city 50 miles away. Why can't I store my hazardous waste at a dump for a nominal fee instead of in a residential neighborhood for no reason while I wait for a collection day?
We also need to mandate that Amazon and other retailers that sell these batteries operate collection points or provide shipping to return the dead batteries no questions asked. It's insane that these companies can dump hazardous waste on us without helping dispose of it later. Maybe a fee that is charged at purchase that is used to pay for disposal later?
Just throwing out there, Apple accepts their own batteries in any condition. I showed up to one of their stores with a friend's swollen (spicy pillow) old MacBook battery in a metal trash can and they put on hazmat gear, came outside the store, and took care of it. They curiously also have you sign some paperwork stating you're not getting the battery back.
I'm not an Apple hardware user or fan but I was pretty impressed with how professionally they took care of that.
It is amazing to see the intense marketing directed to rechargeable mowers. Well over half the mower display space in many large home improvement stores.
It is going to be interesting to see if these create a fire hazard in the suburbs. Don't let your fire insurance lapse.
Expecting this to happen in London this summer, in dustbin vans (garbage trucks) and in public bins e.g. in city parks. Lithium batteries from disposable nicotine vapes (elf bar is one brand) are absolutely everywhere and have been since the autumn.
I largely quit vaping right before the rise of disposable vape pens and it is mindblowing to me that they were allowed – by any group including the manufacturers, governments, even consumers – to become a thing. They seem from the outside to be significantly more expensive to produce, tons more e-waste, and not much more convenient than pod systems.
bigclivedotcom had a video on yt where he started collecting these disposable vapes off the street and salvaging the batteries for his projects. It was sad to see that so many of these 'disposable' products are thrown away by many without any care.
Talk about dumpster fires. In all seriousness, though. it should be relatively easy to find who's responsible for the fire. Fines prevent that trend from getting out of hand.
> it should be relatively easy to find who's responsible for the fire
How is it easy? The fire can start long after the batteries are introduced into the trucks. Here in Norway they're a major cause of fires at the facilities handling the garbage[1].
I'm not actually clear how the building would deal with the problem either! Everyone's trash goes down one garbage chute. I'm not sure exactly how many units are in my building, but some quick math makes me think it's well over 100.
> not actually clear how the building would deal with the problem either
Every New Yorker is familiar with buildings putting up signs admonishing residents for not properly separating their recycling. If it's a recurring problem, the super will inspect it before putting it out.
The bigger issue is we don’t have an easy way to detect batteries in trash before they’ve taken out a truck. So this discussion is largely hypothetical.
That’s problematic. The ash and rubbish containers are often accessible from the street. Now they would fine a complex because it has insufficient surveillance?
I don’t think there is an easy solution to this other than requiring battery mfgs to make safer batteries and consumer education.
I can see where half of those fines are rarely enforced. I don't see this as having viable enforcement. I think the main solutions are educational (make it easy to properly dispose batteries) and making the batteries safer.
> can see where half of those fines are rarely enforced
The efficient amount of enforcement is difficult to estimate. For recycling, at least, it works well enough. I imagine jacking up fines and increasing spot enforcement should be enough to motivate upstream behavior in the buildings, e.g. posting signs or deploying a separate bin.
Perhaps we need hazardous collection bins just for this. I have a collection of spent batteries that I need to dispose of but it’s been inconvenient enough that I haven’t brought them to a collection center yet.
A related problem just hit me this weekend. I had removed a failed/bulged Lithium Ion battery from a week ago and placed it with my others to be taken during the one time a year that garbage collection allows us to bring the toxic stuff to them for recycling (later this year...).
Fast forward to this week and the battery is nearly twice its size. A while back I decided to repair a bunch of failed Ryobi Li-Ion packs (taking them apart, testing the 18650 cells independently and rebuilding each with all new cells of the same specifications)[0]. I'd done this several times over the years with various battery packs made up of 18650 cells[1].
While basically ignoring all of the intelligent warnings for handling/dealing with these cells[0], I managed to short one of the visibly bad cells for long enough to turn the battery into what might be a very respectable, completely out of control, blow torch.
The heat from the flame caused me to immediately drop it and everything I was holding but despite being in my hand for all of maybe 10 milliseconds, it managed to leave a permanent scar (which serves as a reminder for me every time I decide I'm going to risk my limbs to save a few bucks to ... at least ... be a whole hell of a lot more careful).
My question is: what in the hell do I do with this expanding pouch battery? I can't take it to the "toxic waste day" event until the fall. I know these pouch batteries are as prone to torching as much as the 18650 cells and this one is growing so fast that it was noticeable.
Are there any options beyond: (a) Toss it in one of the "Electronics Recycling" boxes at a big box store (are those still a thing?) -- I am concerned for the safety of the staff/store. (b) Same but get one of those "mail away" bags -- I would never do this; trading a garbage truck fire for a mail truck fire isn't an improvement and I'm sure it's as illegal as: (c) Hide it in the garbage and hope for the best -- see the article and "b" for why I won't do this, either. And finally, the only option my garbage carrier gives me: (d) Find some magical way to store this thing until the fall when my garbage carrier will let me drive it to their facility for Toxic Stuff Day. By then it'll be in a box of melted goo.
For the moment, I went with (d) and placed it inside of a container from a kiln I hacked together a few years ago ... which sits in the center of the cement floor of my shed[2].
I don't like any of these options -- anyone else been in a similar spot and found a good solution?
[0] I am not a battery guy or an electrical engineer, just a typical hacker with the driving force being: "What could possibly go wrong?"
[1] Pretty much every notebook from that era (gifted to me as "I'm just going to throw this out, do you want it?) had detachable packs made up of combinations of 18650 cells wired together.
[2] I learned I built this pretty well after it took a real world test with some mixed molten metals and other materials that left the entire interior covered in a layer of black "something" but did no damage otherwise.
I believe one way to safely discharge LiPo batteries to render them safe for regular garbage disposal is to fully submerge them in a saturated saltwater solution for more than 24 hours until the cell is fully discharged(some lipo chargers also have a discharge feature). You may still be required to separate them from household waste depending on local regulations, but it shouldn't combust once the voltage is 0.
It especially doesn't help that electronics, including with non-replaceable batteries, including those that get angry when abused, are being designed to be disposable to begin with.
And yeah, I know there's a high level of apathy about the problem with the masses. Even though the information can be, for the most part, found, people just don't care enough.