Not a woman, but perhaps something like "This is much too forward of you", in a disapproving tone. Nothing makes me quickly reconsider my actions like this words, even if it turns out she was kidding.
It provides the suggestion that if he proceeded differently, there might be a chance, but if he continues this way there is not. That suggestion might be enough to restore at least a semblance of normal interaction?
As a woman, what I hate is when I'm trying to be nice and proper and educational about telling people to back off and they use that as a springboard to go all "who, me?" or maybe "oh, okay" and then assume I'm a frigid bitch anyway instead of recognizing that they're the ones making a big mistake.
So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really matter. I don't need to be nice about someone invading my personal space especially if I'm going to be known as a frigid bitch anyway. It's also not my problem to educate that person on basic human interaction no matter who they are and no, I refuse to accept stereotypes as an excuse for what they did. (I would expect no less if I were doing the same to someone else - minus the frigid bitch part.)
Regardless, the other problem with confronting something as it happens - that a lot of people here right now don't seem to recognize - is that sometimes you don't even fully realize what's going on until after it's happened or started. Either you're in shock, or you're not noticing how fast something escalated. You also might have no idea what to do because you're worried about the consequences (which range from physical force to losing your job and death threats and "frigid bitch" namecalling). It's not easy. I only wish it were, and I speak from a rather privileged perspective where I work for myself, don't care about what people say about me most of the time, and have a big, tall, hairy fiancé and a big, tall, intimidating roommate to back me up.
I'm privileged. I also have a black belt in taekwondo, studied other martial arts/self defense techniques, and I'm big and fat and subjectively beautiful with a couple thousand Twitter followers ;) I'm part of a bunch of women/diversity-focused communities I can turn to for help too. (Double Union, devchix, Tech LadyMafia, etc. if anyone was curious.)
There will be women that can't do what I'm willing to do for a lot of reasons. People, even. There are people still having problems with what they've done in the past to discourage bad behavior even though they were the victims. There will never be a shortage of that, ever.
So whatever you think someone else should do, don't forget you can help too. Discourage this behavior in everyone, support codes of conduct or implement them in your own groups, and follow said codes of conduct. The community will become a better place for it, not just for women but for everyone in general, and you can't go wrong with that.
Of course, had I seen such behavior I'd have told the jerk to back off myself and pointed out that she's clearly uncomfortable with your inappropriate behavior. It's a bitcoin meetup, not a singles bar.
Sure, I didn't think you were blaming her, but I do think the issues go deeper.
Think about it from the perspective of the groper. He perhaps doesn't understand why the action was uncalled for, in his mind he was just being 'friendly' or 'flirty', a little forward but nothing more. How is there this disconnect between these mostly harmless intentions and the inappropriate actions that followed? Certainly a level of ignorance and/or lack of emotional intelligence is at play. So as men, what can we do to help change this?
I don't need to be nice about someone invading my personal space
Yes, I agree. But of course not every woman is willing to be outright confrontational and thus resort to "grin-and-bear-it", which is why I was thinking about other possible avenues based on my experiences receiving blowback.
I realize it's a different story actually there in the moment than it is for me, an armchair warrior, but the only ways I know of to get around that are 1) making choices to avoid the situation (which never go over well in discussion) and 2) behavioral changes. I avoid #1, and #2 is not an issue with anyone I have any influence over; everyone I know would immediately ostracize that person if word ever got out. So all I've got left to discuss is possible reactions. :/
I think the best way to do it is to ask organizers to set up codes of conduct for larger or regular events, and for smaller events to just outright be like "what do you think you're doing? that's not appropriate" if "fuck off" is too harsh. If a person is worried about how to confront someone at all, s/he could ask for help from others at any point (even the much-maligned Ada Initiative) and confront the person on terms s/he is comfortable with (like later in an email). I mean, even a little "excuse me" and taking their hands off you is something and hopefully everyone else understands what's going on and discourages any negative reactions to that. I'm just going all out because I used to grin and bear it when I was younger and now I know better, I'm tired of this bullshit, and I don't care about making someone a public example. And I speak as an introverted little aspie geek just like the stereotype. Fuck everyone that thinks that's a good excuse.
On a sidenote, I was much younger. I went to college and started to go to tech conferences and events at 15. You will not believe how many men, including married men and men old enough to be my father, would hit on me and worse. One of my pipe dreams is wishing I could tell them that they tried to grope a 15 year old. Alas it was almost a decade ago and I can't do anything about it now (except making sure that everyone has resources to discourage that behavior).
> But of course not every woman is willing to be outright confrontational
True, but men are generally outright confrontational and when dealing with men, speaking their language is likely to lead to them understanding in the moment what just happened.
Understandable, but meek people get walked on; that's simply how the world works. How it out to work really doesn't matter, practically speaking you must play the cards you're dealt. If a guy hits on a women and she doesn’t like it, she needs to end it somehow, either by leaving, or by confronting.
I don't think they're incompatible at all. Had I been there an seen it, I'd have defender her, but when there's no one there to do so, the meek must step up or get walked on. The world isn't as it out to be. There's always the leave option, or simply move away from that person.
assume I'm a frigid bitch anyway instead of recognizing that they're the ones making a big mistake
I know I already replied to you, but I had one more thought- your frustration is not with assholes & sexual assaulters, your frustration here is really with humans in general :) This is a classic, classic human trait that shows up in just about every type interaction.
I have the personal space problem no matter where I go and the "frigid bitch" thing for even the slightest offense is common, so yeah it is definitely a human problem. It just seems that in the tech community there are people more eager to jump to namecalling/victim blaming/harassment or defending what happened. (Scroll down for some great examples, if they haven't been deleted yet!)
There are good people for sure here, I'm getting married to one in two months. The rotten apples are just more vocal and this is a community I'm trying to care about improving.
So I say "frigid bitch" but it's not always spoken or spoken in those exact words. Everything from just plain "bitch" to calling me a whore, a slut, a cunt, or insulting the way I look and my mother and my mother's mother. Sometimes it might be justified, more often it's not.
It was worst with dating and relationships, where on okcupid and fetlife and other such communities some guy would message me saying I'm hot etc. and sometimes go into some disgusting and inappropriate fantasy about sleeping with two women because I say I'm bisexual, and then call me a ugly whore because I rejected him with a "sorry we're not really a match" ...because it's true. This happened with surprising frequency. I eventually made my profile visible to other women only, and then I gave up altogether soon after that.
I would also try to go to events with friends because just that one act tends to make creeps think twice, often because they believe you're "just" a girlfriend/wife (another terrible stereotype). In addition, I had a couple fake wedding rings for going out at night in general. Now I have a real ring and it's funny how the new assumptions are now sticking around for good. And I still only go out to events with my fiancé or limit myself to events run by women-focused or women-only groups. Being in SF this is easy, not so much in LA where I used to live and elsewhere. Also, I make a point of not giving this advice out to anyone because it smells a lot like the "don't wear revealing clothes/don't walk alone at night or else you might be raped" victim blaming so take it with a grain of salt ;) But a lot of women do this in general. It's kind of sad but it's life. It's also one of many reasons why tech sucks balls for women to be in.
I'm pretty sure for every asshole of a guy I encountered there were others and especially other women in his life that would speak well of him. I'm convinced most people that cause problems just need a small reminder to not be creeps. Unfortunately the internet and pseudonymity makes that hard, and makes it easy for real, persistent assholes to perpetuate their bullshit.
At the hug, she says "Sorry, we've only just met." And removes herself from it if it lingers. If he makes a joke about getting to know her, she says "That's a bit creepy, aren't we here to talk Bitcoin?" And moves on.
At the hand on the thigh, remove it firmly, say with some volume "Please don't put your hand on my leg, it's inappropriate." Then stand up to move seats. If there are no seats, ask "Can someone spare some room down this (other) end of the table?"
This has happened to me. What I got back was a hurt look with, "I'm just trying to be friendly!" Honestly, what do you say to that? Some guys have a magic talent for turning it around and turning you into a villain for daring to assert your boundaries.
It provides the suggestion that if he proceeded differently, there might be a chance, but if he continues this way there is not. That suggestion might be enough to restore at least a semblance of normal interaction?