Aren't you suddenly getting terrified about what the dossier created by data mining every phone call, every email, every article on every website you read, every comment you've ever left, every book you ever bought, every library book that you ever took out, the magazines that you subscribe to, every cent you've ever spent by card and where it was spent, every place you've ever lived, every place where you worked, every place you ever made a phone call from, every classmate you've ever had, how much electricity you use, and the same things about all of your probable friends - w/different data sources starting 7-15 years ago?
Are you even more terrified of the executive summary? Is it just me?
Nope. It was obvious from the get-go that the purpose of the Patriot Act was to normalize what had previously been the domain of covert investigations of individuals. I don't personally feel terrified about it because I am too boring to become a likely object of suspicion; realistically, the chance of my being swept up in a government intelligence operation is about as likely as my being blown up by terrorists. And frankly, the Patriot act has had considerably less impact on individual liberties and Democratic participation that I expected it to at the time it was passed.
On the other hand, I'm quite depressed that it's taken people so long to put it together that they're willing to buy into the idea that Obama a) invented it or b) had the freedom to single-handed dismantle it. The entire country badly needs a remedial course in civics, not least in Congress's ongoing game of hot potato.
I'm not confident that opinions that I've expressed or activities that I've engaged in will not be targeted by future administrations. For example, I'm an atheist, and have associated with atheists. Who's to say that won't get me rounded up in 30 years?
When I was younger (I'm nearly 40 now) there were very few records of anything that I did, and to have a government file was unusual, not a few keystrokes away for LE to generate a file on anyone. We're all guilty of crimes, questionable opinions, and questionable associations that leave digital remnants. I'm starting to think that I don't need a cellphone anymore.
>I'm quite depressed that it's taken people so long to put it together that they're willing to buy into the idea that Obama a) invented it or b) had the freedom to single-handed dismantle it.
This is what depresses you? I don't give a shit who the general population blames, and the idea that Obama had no ability to dismantle it would be a controversial statement anywhere. We've had presidents who've carried on entire wars without Congressional approval.
Obama switched his stance to be in support of the Patriot Act/FISA extension _right in the middle of the 2008 primaries_! Chris Dodd, who was also running, led a huge filibuster effort AGAINST it. He ultimately failed and was one of the first to drop out. Moreover, for the record, Joe Biden is largely considered one of the architects of what became the Patriot Act, from his 1995 Omnibus Terrorism Bill (after the Oklahoma City bombings.) It's like a source document for the current legislation.
So, yes, Congress passes these laws, but yes, Obama, Biden, and the majority of Democrats also do bear responsibility. Obama is the President. He signs off on, and executes this and is in favor of it and it was known before he was elected.
Obama switched his stance to be in support of the Patriot Act/FISA extension _right in the middle of the 2008 primaries_!
This is true, so that rather invalidates the complaint that 'this isn't what we voted for.' Much like military incursions into Pakistan to target bin Laden, Obama himself clearly ran as a conservative Democrat, but a lot of people projected their own views onto him without paying attention to his actual platform.
He signs off on, and executes this
He has limited the scope somewhat through signing statements, but I feel bound to observe that the huge majorities with which Congress passed the original Patriot act and its various extensions make his signature a mere formality - even if he wiped his ass with it on national TV, it would still be the law and he would still be required to faithfully execute it.
Well, you're not likely to get show in Brazil or South Africa either but it's best to just not live in such places because if it actually happens, it's too late to react. The PATRIOT act may not have had the worst possible consequences yet (as far as we know) but it's still in effect. It's like a standing reverse lottery of misery.
But remember, we have to disarm, because guns are evil you see. And because we can trust big brother, you see. The government knows what's best for us--after all, it knows everything about us.
This is the sort of reason the wingnuts cry about guns and gubberment, and unfortunately, they're looking a bit less alarmist with each passing day.
Aha. So, now, since you haven't disarmed yet, your government is still afraid of you, right? And they wouldn't, say, break the constitution and unlawfully spy on all their citizens, now, would they? Oh wait, they do! So how did the guns prevent it?
Do you really think the situation would be better if the government knew--knew--they could march into your house at any time and black-bag you with total impunity? I'd rather the doormat factor not be absolute.
Be realistic, neither the political right or the NRA exhibited the least bit of opposition to the Patriot Act at the time of its adoption; 2nd amendment types were too busy printing and buying bumper stickers such as the one below for their cars.
An accurate and unfortunate picture--consider how many similarly silly baubles and propaganda pieces (Darwin fish, anyone?) are sold to people on the other side of the aisle. People are dumb and silly and tacky regardless of ideology.
I'm being perfectly realistic. Every time the topic comes up here on HN--one of the more rational places of discussion I've encountered--we see the same strong anti-gun sentiment come out, very frequently with the caveat that it's okay for the .gov and .mil to be armed while the citizenry is not.
We can't at once both be outraged at the erosions of privacy and civil liberties and at the same time flabbergasted at the idea that people lack the faith in their government to grant them a monopoly on force.
The parent didn't mention the political right or the NRA. There are a massive number of gun rights supporters that do not fall into such convenient stereotypes.
Are you even more terrified of the executive summary? Is it just me?