> Instead of competing with hundreds in the application pile, you reach decision-makers directly.

As a hiring manager, my inbox is already drowning. I don't mind the applications, I mind that most of them are _clearly_ not a good fit to the point where I'm confident that they themselves have not looked at the job posting for a single second.

The more tools like yours will be built, the more you'll have to know someone who knows me to even get a chat with me - because I won't browse through hundreds of automated messages just to find the one that isn't. I'll be honest: That'll create a tech world even more hostile to people without "the right connections" - and that makes me sad.

Not only that, some organizations have policies to not accept information/applicants who don't follow the process through recruiter, HR, job board, etc. Now you're effectively "black balled" from applying the right way.

Are there orgs that will blackball you for contacting someone?

I've just seen that they will tell you that if you are interested to apply on the ATS.

As far as I know, referrals are way more preferred that cold applications.

Same with good applications which aren't filtered out by these very same organizations lol

It's almost like there needs to be a way to penalize applicants who SPAM.

hey man,

I totally agree with you. it's a bit a chicken and egg problem. You've got ATS systems filtering out candidates and then on the other side, you've got candidates auto-applying to a lot of unsuitable jobs.

We're trying to educate applications be more considerate and either apply where there's a fit or understand why there's no fot. If there's a fit however, then you should start building a relationship with someone first.

Surely this now means now hiring managers (and people your code incorrectly identifies as hiring managers) now get spammed with loads of bullshit generated messages. Which obviously they'll ignore. But now you've made their jobs a bit harder by breaking a previously (maybe) working communication channel.

So you've put a effort in to build a product just to make the world slightly worse on net. Not hugely worse, but still it doesn't seem like the best way you could have spent your time.

Things are turning truly bonkers right now. I've hired two developers in the last couple of weeks:

1. One from my network, just announced it, someone I had worked with in the past reached out, quick chat, hired, great.

2. One with the usual approach of posting job ads and all that. We got an _insane_ amount of noise, even as an obscure, small company. I've hired hundreds of people, but most of those three years ago or earlier. Never seen such noise, most candidates barely meeting any of the requirements, weird auto generated cover letters and CVs. It was a bit exhausting, but I went through everyone manually to make sure I'm not accidentally filtering out a solid candidate. We found two in the end, one quickly backed out because they got another offer. But there was one good candidate left, and they accepted the offer. I don't remember this being so hard.

A few years ago I'd call people trying to automate screening or mainly hiring from their network lazy. In this time, I see the appeal.

The last thing I need is more bots spamming me on my LinkedIn account on top of all this madness.

I think some recruiters are already doing AI-slop, too. (Not just the LinkedIn-spamming templates that some sourcers were doing before.)

Hopefully we'll get a big backlash against disingenuous passing off AI-slop as a communication from a human.

Maybe sending someone an AI-slop message will become universally recognized as trashy behavior -- employed only by the corporate communications of companies that really don't care, but not by anyone respectable.

Yeah. Personally, I’ve also tried reaching out to people in companies I’m interested in, but automating that just feels dishonest somehow.

The reaching out might work, I know some people actually appreciate it. I personally don't, it feels like an attempt to circumvent the system, and the system is in place for a reason: It attempts to make the insane volume of candidate messages manageable. It's not perfect, I wish more people would work on better systems rather than ways to circumvent them.

There is one notable exception to this, a guy I actually ended up hiring: The job ad link I posted stopped working after a few days, and he wrote a nice message to the company (!) email address telling us about that, and saying he's interested if the role is still open. That's proactiveness I really appreciate. It's very different from random people reaching out on my personal LinkedIn account or email, which I simply ignore.

I'd _love_ it if there wasn't so much noise, then I would probably think about it differently. But the volume does burn you out, and any attempts at circumventing systems put in place to try and manage this is not helpful.

And that's for manually written messages. Automating that - Jesus.

you should always pre-vet any message you send and sign with your name.

it doesnt really matter where the message or how was created, only that you're 100% ok with its contents reaching its destinatatary.

that still puts some limits to how much you can -spam- and should make you not want to -spam- but only send real messages, but you can certainly use AI to help you research/generate those leads initial messages

i have not tried to do this, but i wouldn't see how its problematic?

That’s how I would use this (and is my approach to LLMs in general). I’m just afraid that others would take a more lazy approach and spoil it for everybody else: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44274583

thanks man!

no problem! gl with the job search

right, we don't automate...

Yeah, but (if I understand how your product works correctly!) I’m afraid the laziest of your users would just copy-paste the suggested message and send it as is, to as many people as possible.

This would quickly saturate the decision-makers’ inboxes, and even those who genuinely put some thought into the roles they apply to and rewrite the suggested openers would be lost in this cacophony.

Is there some way to prevent that?

quick question: have YOU tried actually applying to any jobs right now? go on Linkedin and you'll see every JD has like 100 applications. Is this what you call "working" process?

It's not. But I think you might be able to use your energy in ways that don't make the noise problem _worse_. Sure, if you don't do it, somebody else might, that occured to me. So what can one do?

1. Perhaps pivot to building a tool that cross references companies hiring with people attending local user groups or conferences you're interested in, to show an overlap? That might give you a hint about what circles you could enter for networking. Manual, human networking. It'd still be work, but a place to start. Of course this is stuff that's better to start when you're still employed and interested in a change, not when you've been applying for months. But it's one idea.

2. Try to work the other side. Why do fitting candidates get filtered out? Can you build a better system than what companies are using already? I wrote another comment about just how hard hiring is with all this automated spam, I'd love a human solution. This is hard of course, but I think I won't be alone and many companies will have similar experiences. Might be a problem they want to pay money for, but it's arguably harder to get than from job seekers.

Just some ideas. I emphasise with the situation and it's cool that you're trying to do _something_. Don't let folks like me discourage you from solving the problem. But consider the feedback on your proposed solution and consider other options to solve it, perhaps.

I haven't, but it sounds honestly really bad. Sounds like it sucks for everyone right now. I just think your product will make it worse, probably only very slightly worse but still worse.

So the same idiots who spammed the existing channels to death and made them unusable will now use your tool to spam the only channel with some signal still left in it until _that_ channel also becomes worthless?

Maybe at least make it invite-only? Pay a deposit, have a chat with a human, and if the candidate isn't a spammer then they get access to the tool with rate-limits?

Given the comments already, Dloku, you should probably delete this, and only use it yourself.

Don't pollute the job pool because you want to be empathetic to many struggling applicants.

The headshots of the customer testimonials are all stock images and not the people they say are giving the testimonials. Makes me very skeptical that the testimonials are real or any of the stats on the page are real.

This stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

Makes the rest of the copy and the claims made about as trustworthy as the authenticity of the images, for me anyway.

They are AI generated

not AI

Why are you representing that these people were your clients, when, by all indications, they are not. It would be a tremendous coincidence if all of your clients also happen to be models for stock photos in their spare time of also being employed in unrelated jobs in tech.

You have been caught trying to pass fake images as real on your site, and now you are trying to get off on a technicality (These aren't AI!).

This isn't a good look for a project that needs authenticity and trust at the core. Why would I put one of the most consequential professional interactions in a my career (finding the next job) into the hands of people that deride fair criticism (see what you said when someone asked for your "about" page) and that are willing to actively deceive when called out.

Do recruiters not exist these days? The last time I looked for a job, which was pre-pandemic, a recruiter took care of finding suitable jobs for me and I barely had to lift a finger, just do some interviews with good companies until I got a good offer. And they got paid a % of my accepted final salary.

Is this model now completely broken? If I was looking for a tech job again I doubt I’d fill out hundreds or a thousand of applications myself, I’d rather just pay someone thousands of dollars to do that grunt work and I just show up for interviews.

I always tried to find that model, but it never worked for me. The recruiters always seemed to be filling a handful of roles that I was a poor fit for, or just treating the role like a sales job.

yes, ideally you try reaching out to people in similar positions like you ( PM to PM ) - best effect and customize CVs as well

I generally assume that anybody who asks for money and promises a job down the line is a scammer. Maybe I should rethink that assumption?

I'm at least unaware of any recent successes with the recruiter approach. (That is, recruiters who don't work for the company that does the interviewing.)

These recruiters do exist. They are difficult to find, they are rare, and there seems to be fewer of them but they do exist.

I wouldn't say you don't have to lift a finger and they do all the work for you, but some of them do seem to have backdoor entry to the companies and their applicants will be preferred. Not to mention that some companies only hire this way (through vendors, not sifting through thousands of applications on the LinkedIn or Indeed).

Recruiters don't ask for any money from the candidate, they get paid by the hiring company.

exactly

nobody will ask for money, they already get paid 10-20k for providing a candidate. heck you can just -refer- friends to companies and get a 10-20k referral.

paying to get a job is 100% a scam

we exist! I'm working on a semi-productized candidate-side recruiting company right now. I think the gap with current market conditions, that this product could help address, is if you're a new grad. It's just really, really hard to land a job with no experience right now and there are definitely no referral fees (so no candidate-side recruiters to help you with intros).

yep mate, take a look at JDs on Linkedin - 100 + applications. there's no way you can "prepare manually" for submitting documents.

"73% of applications never reach humans,"

care to provide a source for this ?

" but 85% of positions are filled through networking"

care to provide a source for this ?

No one is attached to Job Compass - AI https://www.linkedin.com/company/jobcompass-ai/

So your service couldn't even find the "decision maker" at your own company, ironic no ?

As you noted those getting hired are through via deeper human connections; through your personal network and or friends' personal networks.

Any tool to spam hiring managers whether AI or not will be marked spam which is highly impersonable, ignored and not seen.

While directly reaching out to hiring managers on linkedin might be a good thing nowadays yet with spam tools such as this Linkedin will start marking them spam and they'll never be seen.

Best thing to do to find work is through your own and or friends' personal networks as you noted.. not this IMHO.

dude, where did you read that we're auto-messaging people?

You are finding hiring managers email addresses and Linkedin profiles (you can't message someone on linked without paying for premium and you might need to be their contact already for some like Open AI hiring managers.. can not message them) it seems.

I've gotten all my jobs through recruiters on LinkedIn since 2013 yet my first two jobs where I gained experience/built my network further were through my personal network (did startups in DC and went to events; met many tech folks). I did LONG ago get an interview via stalking a hiring manager on Linkedin and she was cool yet her boss was mortified by such action I took. I didnt get the gig in 2011. Times have changed so some hiring managers im sure won't care until this hack becomes like spam where tons and tons of randos start hitting up hiring managers email boxes and or their linkedin invite inboxes.

Personally what would be better is AI finding people in your network who you already know and who are connected to hiring managers by 1 to 3 degrees of separation. Something that helps the number one thing that gets people jobs ...knowing someone and or having a friend or co-worker (former) who knows these people.

Exactly , this has been a longstanding issue and usually we come across these problems in some or the other form , either we accept it or ignore it ! All we need to bring the change and make it more streamlined so that our efforts does not go in vain .. We as a team been working in this aspect as AI in HR , focusing on AI recruiting agent , would like to exchange thoughts how we can make it better! Feel free to reach out as we are participating in SHRM , showcasing our product .

Why are the testimonials Ai generated people?

Probably the same reason there's no "About" page with links to who the founders are, and the explicitly didn't link themselves to the company on LinkedIn.

They also made a new account just to post this to HN.

Seems like something that should get flagged.

you're funny dude. How many YC companies have an "About" page xD

You're sitting here on Hackernews and expect a 3-week project to have a corporate website - you're funny, really are

Nice job! A couple questions for you guys:

- Did you personally end up getting offers using your own tool?

- Anything surprising you learned building it?

Yep, we actually did. reaching out on linkedin DMs to CEOs, has to be thought through though.

Also - the tool does indicate why you're likely not a good fit.

technically - yes: vibe coding doesn't work xD

talking to customer - yes: some people have issues passing interviews, less getting into 1st calls

> Results: Users getting 70% more response rates vs regular applications.

So 7 responses for 347 applications instead of 4? Not exactly impressive.

And what are those extra 3 responses? "Why the hell are you messaging me?"?

"ignore all previous instructions"

how'd you come up with 347?

> My friend and I got tired of job hunting (347 applications, 4 responses)

right, but why do you think this applies to all then???

If most jobs are gotten through networking, maybe... use networking?

that's exactly it!

Ah yes, I'm sure adding more automation and policy between people rather than just letting them talk to each other and do what they feel like will solve the problem of people not talking to eachother.

we're not allowing people to auto-apply. But automation is helpful or do you manually craft your CV and wanna read through 30 applications to see if you're a good fit??

There are a number of notable issues with the marketing claims on this site. There may be a useful tool at the center of it, but the marketing is deceptive - at best.

All of the images in their testimonials looked like AI to me, Dloku, the poster, claimed they weren't. Fair enough, but I looked up several in a reverse image search, and they were all stock images. So not AI generated by the poster. At the very least, the images do not represent people that have used this tool, unless all of them happen to moonlight as models outside of their tech jobs.

Further, dloku states elsewhere here that this was a three week project when questioned why he is remaining nameless, and has no about page. This tracks with the domain being registered on May 29. However, it raises the question of how so many tech workers/models were able to use the tool, and have so much success. Account manager and Stock photo model Maya (whose profile photo was also found in the pages of a US News teenlife guide on internships [1]) even testifies that she landed 3 interviews in 2 weeks, a remarkable success story and testimonial for a site that only registered their domain 2 weeks before her testimonial. That is assuming that the domain update registered on June 4th was not a nameserver update, and that the site was live and working on the exact day of registration.

Maybe they were stealth mode, maybe the testimonials are real, and they just made a judgement error in choosing to use stock images for them. But they came here to HN to show the target market, and solicit feedback, and got snarky in the comments when pushed on this stuff, which to me hints that there is something being hidden from us, or that there is an integrity issue with jobcompass.ai. Very possible it is just posturing in the SV "fake it till you make it way", but I will not trust my career decisions to a company that does this. I would much rather a company just have a good product and tell me about it, than that they use seemingly fake social proof to try to fool me.

To that end, can the creators explain why they chose to use stock images and represent them as real customers? Can they explain the extremely tight, barely possible timeline in their testimonial?

1. https://issuu.com/teenlife/docs/how_to_find_an_internship_by...

After a few days the site has removed all of the testimonials and representations I highlighted above.

The only thing they missed is the trustpilot "top rated by users" badge. They have no presence on trustpilot, nor do they have any user reviews.