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I don't get how it is allowed that C-Suits just are allowed to blatantly lie to their investors/board/users they have the data and they know it won't happen. Exactly how Musks knows FSD won't happen this year...


Lying to users about performance is covered under free speech. It's securities fraud if Musk is knowingly lying to those with an interest in X, even if a private company. Necessary components are standing ("I own a piece of X"), appetite to litigate, and evidence the statement was knowingly untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_Exchange_Act_of_193...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Securities_Litigation_...


The key there is "knowingly." For those who want to litigate, proving that he's lying is incredibly difficult. You would need some kind of internal message from Musk directly saying that "X will not be profitable in 2024" right before he posted. I doubt anyone will actually sue him over this.


Isn't that redundant? You can't unknowingly lie. To lie is to say something that you know isn't true.


> To lie is to say something that you know isn't true.

There's lying by omission; no falsehoods, but important bits left out.


There's also "should have known", aka fiduciary duty.


Didn't workout for Nikola. Their trunk didn't work when it was presented but I could say the same thing to the solar roof installation Elon presented.


Nikola's fraud was blatant [1]. They rolled a truck down a hill, and the internal emails were damning. Trying in good faith (solar shingles) and failing isn't fraud, that's just a failed business venture. Solyndra failed too. Fraud? No, just bad business.

I can understand that Musk attempts to bend reality to juice the chances of success. I don't condone it personally, but I understand it [2].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/14/business/trevor-milton-ni...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37668438


Nikola was also public, and therefore had a higher level of regulatory scrutiny.


Perhaps she is merely a figurehead, but this was the CEO, not Musk, making these statements.

"X Corp. Chief Executive Linda Yaccarino said on Wednesday..."


Is she an officer of the company?


Lying to users about your product is illegal under false advertising laws. Now, proving that in court is a lot easier said than done.


Well, they did say "should" (opinion) rather than "will" (prediction of fact)


The board is just Musk, he fired everybody else.

The investors are Musk, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Binance, Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia and some others. Imaginary profits shouldn't be an issue for this group, the value of their holdings lies elsewhere.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/12/24/elon-mu...


To investors and board? I don't think they really care as long as Tesla makes them money which it is.

To users, it doesn't matter unless sometimes sues them. And I'm pretty sure there is some terms and services clause that makes it non trivial to sue.

But also, how is FSD/Tesla relevant to an article on X? Just because it's the same CEO?


I think the point is that Musk has proven that he can't be fully trusted.


> I don't get how it is allowed that C-Suits just are allowed to blatantly lie to their investors/board/users they have the data and they know it won't happen

This is _why_ many jurisdictions, including the US, have some concept of 'qualified/accredited' investor, and investment in private companies is somewhat restricted to people who are presumed to know what they're doing. CEOs of _public_ companies absolutely cannot lie about financials, but it's murkier for private companies.


What do you mean FSD won't happen? I used FSD in my car this morning to drive to work


My office is 7.1 miles away and I go FSD there and back. Perhaps it's where I live is conducive to functional operation, but it works. Perhaps the difference is that unlike a lot of people who try FSD, I keep my eyes on the road and not watching something like Harry Potter


FSD won't happen except under more than ideal conditions. Greetings from snowy Sweden.


Who are the investors? Musk bought them out.


There are still plenty of investors, such as the Saudi royal family. Musk isn't the sole owner of Twitter, some of the old investors agreed to remain co-owners with him in the buyout.


Musk took on debt to fund the purchase. Vanguard Group, Morgan Stanley, BlackRock, and State Street all are part of the ownership group.


They're not owners, they're creditors. They receive interest payments, not dividends.




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