Seeing a fair number of comments about “Chinese cars aren’t just junk now”.
Which is…not a shock? Japanese cars used to be jokes. And certainly, within my living memory, South Korean cars were regarded as abysmal little shitboxes—hence Kia’s 10-year warranty plan. But now those countries and corporate cultures produce fantastic cars, and compete at the highest levels. (Check out Genesis reviews, world-beating luxury cars from Hyundai.)
But I’m not sure if Chinese cars will make a significant dent in the US market. The US, both by regulatory standards and consumer expectations, puts a lot of demands on the content of cars. Very strong safety standards on the regulatory end, and expectations on mileage and features and lots and lots of cupholders in pseudo-SUVs that never ever go anywhere near offroad on the consumer end of things. By the time you get all the laws covered, and by the time you design and manufacture a car that meets customer demand, you have a vehicle that’s pricey to make, and then has to compete in a saturated market.
My personal take is that the Chinese car makers have somewhat missed their opportunity to introduce their own brands to the US market. Due to the pandemic and China's own policies, the tide is now against them. But Chinese companies do own a number of western brands (Volvo, MG, etc.) and those can continue to be viable or even grow and expand.
> The US, both by regulatory standards and consumer expectations, puts a lot of demands on the content of cars.
When Buick began selling a lot of cars in China, they had to improve the quality of their interiors in order to live up to the standards of the Chinese car buyers! It actually led to them also improving the interior quality of the cars they sold in the US. But it was too little, too late for them here, so the Buick brand now only exists in the Chinese market. They recently announced a 100K+ USD luxury minivan in China that would be ridiculous overkill in the US:
The mid/high end Chinese market is just as demanding as the rest of the world, and maybe more so in some respects. So many Chinese carmakers already know how to make cars that are up to US/EU standards.
I mean, my Volvo XC60 was made in Chengdou, China, and it's the most well made car I have ever owned(especially compared to my last Mercedes Benz which was actually assembled in Germany yet had the build quality of a wooden horse carriage)
Your car was designed at a component level in Gothenburg, Sweden. Components were designed and built around the world. It has then been assembled in Chengdou, China. This has been a goal of the Geely/PRC ownership.
It's a bit like with the iPhone being designed in California; made in China.
Well yes - my point is just to say that cars made in China can be very high quality(even though it's not strictly "Chinese car"(although Volvo is owned by Geely so......)
In mid-2020, I was interested in an S90 here in Switzerland, and I was told it's _only_ manufactured in China, so with CoVID going on, delivery would be 9-12 months. (Instead bought a Mercedes and had it delivered in 3-4 months.)
I understand why some long wheelbase versions are Chinese-only, but I found it odd that Volvo's entire flagship sedan series is all-China.
> I understand why some long wheelbase versions are Chinese-only, but I found it odd that Volvo's entire flagship sedan series is all-China.
I think the reason is that the S90 isn't high volume enough to warrant more than one factory, and China is a substantial enough market for them that it makes sense to build them there vs US/Europe.
Yeah mine is the T8 and apparently all plug-in hybrids for the right hand drive market are assembled in China. The order to delivery time was 9 months(ordered in 2019 June, delivered in March 2020).
Kia and Hyundai don't have good reputations because of the build quality of their engines. Their poor quality piston rings means the engine eats itself. They've had to recall basically every engine they've produced in the past decade.
Yeah I was like wasn't there some issue with some of their engines.
I think they have still come a long way since the early 90's. My mother owner one. Brand new off the show room in 1991 and the thing broke down at least once a month. Besides that the interior started falling apart right away(handles breaking, windows that wouldn't go up, etc)
That was the shortest period she ever owned a car. She traded it in for a Nissan.
If Lemon laws existed in that country then she would have had a case.
Yep, not to mention the recent scandal with car security (keywords: kia, usb cable) because they cheaped out and didn't include security keys until 2019.
Those kia/hyundai engines with issues (theta ii) are based on mitsubishi engine (4b11t) that don't have any issues.
I think the issue was added gas recirculation, which made the engine run hotter and causing a negative feedback loop ending in piston rings getting clogged with burnt oil and scraping the cylinder walls.
I watched a podcast (9 Hole Reviews) with asian gun dealers in the USA and China sold high quality firearms to the US which they used the profits to reinvest in machines for factories etc.
Essentially modern Chinese industry was financed in no small part by selling guns to Americans.
China has always had a spectrum of workers and production, and was able to exploit the gaps in labour rates, which aren't as great and therefore Chinese manufacturing is less competitive but is still sticky because of the massive supply chain.
> But I’m not sure if Chinese cars will make a significant dent in the US market.
Spoken like someone who has not driven a Polestar 2 or checked out its build quality, I believe. Of course they're really Volvo built by the super modern Geely factory in China, last i saw.
I owned a Great Wall for two years (H5/Haval). It wasn’t terrible (it had a Mitsubishi gasoline engine and GM engine computer), but GW did the integration engineering themselves and it showed. My go to example was the belt tensioner. It tensioned the belt, but all the forces went through one bolt head. Whereas my ‘95 F-150 had a specific boss cast into a bracket that accepted a half inch ratchet allowing you to use a breaker bar.
Ford and GM have more than a hundred years of experience in what works and what doesn’t (although cost-cutting may not really let the former shine). It’s not until these vehicles see widespread adoption in the native market that the industrial practitioners will build their own knowledge base.
Chinese made cars are heavily tariffed into the USA, which is why polestars (and their sibling Volvo EVs) are so expensive. Geely will solve this by setting up a factory in the USA.
MG have a couple of cars in the top 10 sales, depending on the month etc...
Buying the MG brand was incredibly smart! People dont realise they are Chinese owned! The two people I know who own an MG say they wouldn't have bought one had they realised!
The cars themselves are not good according to my generous sample size of two! :-)
I was really surprised to see large electric trucks when I visited China. But they still have little three-wheel one piston trucks on the road at the same time. It's an interesting dynamic.
Which is…not a shock? Japanese cars used to be jokes. And certainly, within my living memory, South Korean cars were regarded as abysmal little shitboxes—hence Kia’s 10-year warranty plan. But now those countries and corporate cultures produce fantastic cars, and compete at the highest levels. (Check out Genesis reviews, world-beating luxury cars from Hyundai.)
But I’m not sure if Chinese cars will make a significant dent in the US market. The US, both by regulatory standards and consumer expectations, puts a lot of demands on the content of cars. Very strong safety standards on the regulatory end, and expectations on mileage and features and lots and lots of cupholders in pseudo-SUVs that never ever go anywhere near offroad on the consumer end of things. By the time you get all the laws covered, and by the time you design and manufacture a car that meets customer demand, you have a vehicle that’s pricey to make, and then has to compete in a saturated market.
And that’s before any incipient trade wars.