I don't particularly enjoy the forced, stilted chatter but I do get a lot of value from:
a) Being obliged to put on clothes and leave the house.
b) Spending a large part of the day at a change of scenery.
c) Having other people there, around, ambiently.
Spending 23 hours a day alone in your room + 1 hour for outdoor exercise, with occasional weekend visitation, is among the worst punishments the state has at its disposal. It boggles the mind that people do this voluntarily.
You are viewing remote work through the particular circumstance of the pandemic. Remote work before covid was very different, and I expect in time we'll get back to a lot of that.
I worked remotely before the pandemic, and most days I still have ample opportunities to meet and talk to people. Most weeks I'd attend a meetup (I'm in a small city in the midwest and we still had plenty of events to cater to most any niche technical interest you'd care to name). A couple of times a month I'd meet up with other remote workers for lunch at a restaurant somewhere convenient to all of us. I regularly hosted, or attended, game nights with friends I met- mostly through the meetups.
I was never one for coworking spaces, and I don't even have a lot of non-development hobbies that had me meeting other people, and I still managed to have a pretty rich social life and meet people, make friends, and even got some of the sorts of creative boosts people claim only come from in-office working (because you talk to people about what problems they work on, or their interests, and it sparks ideas for how to apply those to your own work).
Things right now are still bleak because of the pandemic. It sucks, and it sucks worse knowing that this could have been over by now if the response hadn't been so universally mishandled, but a lot of what sucks about the pandemic will continue to suck- or suck differently but the same amount, if you go back to an office. Remote work isn't for everyone, and you really might still find that all things being equal the office just works best for you, and that's fine, but don't confuse "the pandemic sucks" for "remote work sucks".
Thanks for these comments -- this one and your reply to vkou. I started working out of college during the pandemic, and my current gig is remote-native, so I've been kind of dooming about remote work. This is some great advice for how to get past that + a good reminder that COVID is still affecting things -- I've been going with my partner to a board game group and swing classes, but the activation energy is definitely higher than before.
Curious -- have you found anything that (partially?) replaces those opportunities, either online or in-person? I joined a Discord server and gave a talk about JPEG at one of their events, which was fun, but not frequent for me to feel that it's a replacement for having in-person coworkers.
I'll admit it's pretty hard to replace the in-person events. I am in some slack and discord communities, and I've done a couple of online conferences. I really used to enjoy presenting at meetups and was very upset to have had to turn down an invitation to an in-person conference this fall because of covid. Virtual talks and meetups aren't really the same, but they are what I've made do with in the short term.
I'm not much for traditional online games, but I know some friends who have used that as a more natural way to do online socializing. I've done some online D&D and have found that is better than other kinds of online meetups for socializing, because it gives you enough space to have conversations and chat, but still gives you enough of a focus and it just feels less exhausting than other kinds of online meetups- the tools are really good these days too.
> started working out of college during the pandemic
* Caveat: remote-only, during the pandemic, right out of college would probably be the worst of all possible worlds
Most of the things that people like about WFH are contingent on being in a later stage of your career (college + 5 years?). Having a place with multiple rooms. Having something of a physical social network. Having self-confidence in your abilities, based on prior performance. Knowing how to navigate office politics.
Plus, most of the things you would be doing at that stage were interrupted: bars, clubs, etc.
Which is to say, you're absolutely right, and I agree with your perspective. But it does get better. But I'm sure that's cold comfort.
A more articulate, and less rageful version of my original post would probably have been "I believe we Americans are (and were!) doing badly at creating opportunities for adult friendships and socialization, and I would rather we aspire to improve things vs going back to the way they were."
> You are viewing remote work through the particular circumstance of the pandemic.
Those particular circumstances of the pandemic haven't been with us for almost a year, now, ever since mass vaccination started. I hated WFH in 2020, and I hated WFH in 2021, and I still hate WFH today. Despite having no pandemic restrictions on what I can do today.
And even prior to vaccination, if you wanted to go out and do stuff, most establishments/businesses/travel options/etc were open since late 2020.
As much as people want to pretend the pandemic is over, it isn't. The legal restrictions might have lifted in most places, but there's a big gap between that and things being back to how they were before- or how they'll be once we've actually hit the endemic part of covid and have a better understanding of what that looks like.
You can still go to a restaurant today, or travel, and co-working spaces might be open, but enough people are still reluctant to attend events that a lot of things aren't sustainable right now. I certainly wouldn't go meet someone at a restaurant for lunch right now, even though I can. Most of my friends feel the same way. Conferences are still happening, but a lot of conferences remain virtual, and a lot of people who might otherwise attend conferences aren't. Either because they are still concerned about covid today, or because they don't want to risk buying tickets, booking travel, and taking time off for a conference that might be canceled or rescheduled due to yet another surge. Tech meetups have almost entirely stopped. Nearly all meetups were hosted by companies, and while those companies might be talking about RTO for their employees, few of them are interested in hosting large groups of strangers after-hours right now. Even if you could find a venue- attendance would be quite low these days.
>
As much as people want to pretend the pandemic is over, it isn't.
No, it's not over, in fact we're at our worst rate of world-wide daily cases since November 2021. Believe me, I'm both a pessimist, and one of the more COVID-cautious people here.
But in my region/anywhere I'd like to go, I can, and currently feel comfortable doing just about anything I want[1] - and have been for most of the past year (Sans Omicron surge).
> You can still go to a restaurant today, or travel, and co-working spaces might be open, but enough people are still reluctant to attend events that a lot of things aren't sustainable right now. I certainly wouldn't go meet someone at a restaurant for lunch right now, even though I can.
Sure, you may feel that way - but I haven't felt that way. So, for me, there are no practical restrictions on what I, or my friends can do. Nothing that I liked doing three years ago is unavailable today.
... And yet, I vastly prefer going into work over WFH.
[1] I don't feel comfortable licking doorknobs or getting into a moshpit, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that pre-COVID, either.
> ... And yet, I vastly prefer going into work over WFH.
Could be just an imbalance between the pre-pandemic world and then two years of the pandemic world. It's quite possible if you had entered WFH when society was normal, there wouldn't be this sharp jolt.
Don't mix up pandemic restrictions with 100% remote work from home.
I put on clothes every day. I only wear a nice t-shirt though and otherwise wear my 'at home pants' that I would also put on as soon as I'd come home from the office. My nice pants last much longer now.
I really don't like the office scenery very much. I also do not like the scenery in between, i.e. a huge city that has no greenery, the commute is equally dull, boring and unappealing. Vs. my home where in summer I can actually sit outside on the deck all day and enjoy the scenery. It's lush and green and warm vs. the cold, dry AC air blowing in my face and forcing me to wear a jacket inside the office.
Depending on whether you have family and/or family that also works from home, people are even around 'ambiently' but at least they're only around ambiently without constantly distracting you. They're in a different room doing their own work most of the time.
After 8 hours of work I am free to do what I want. Go outside, take a walk, meet friends etc.
I do like my path to work. In fact, I go there once in a while, and come back just to get a long walk.
I do like my previous office. It happens that I had to improve my home when I got here, but after spending around 1/5 of my monthly salary, my home is now even a it more comfortable and I use it when not working too. If you have a minimum of space, that's quite doable, and if you don't, why don't you want to move into a cheaper place?
WFH don’t require working at home, you can work wherever you want.
Laptop + 5G means you can work outside for much of the year at a local park etc. You can do all that coworker social stuff with your friends rather than people you happen to work with.
Even if you do stay home skipping your commute and eating at home saves significant time and money every week you can use to again socialize with people you want to actually be around.
I assume you don't have any friends or family outside of work that live close to you?
My group of friends gets lunch together 3-4 days out of the workweek. We even sometimes do dinner with eachother during the week. Sometimes we do this with family instead - my wife's sister and parents live within 15 minutes of us.
In my whereabouts weekday evenings is where the fun social stuff goes (well, used to before pandemics). Group rides, group runs, orienteering events, bar trivia nights... You get most attendants on weekdays since on weekends many people are out of town (family, summerhouses, etc) and/or go to full-day events.
Theater performances or concerts are not uncommon on weekdays either. Touring artists just have to play on whatever day it turns out to be.
Also, once remote working with lax schedules become the norm, more opportunities will come up. E.g. I fondly remember times when my friends' and mine schedules would click and we could do quick morning rides.
I think the problem is, since working fully remote means spending about twice as much time in formally scheduled meetings, and those meetings are significantly more draining on Zoom than in person, both I and the people I might socialize with feel a lot more drained at the end of the work day and less interested in doing anything non-vegetative. Previously we would go for dinner or drinks after work pretty often.
Yes, it does. A bit late for the thread but here’s open source evidence from Microsoft. Our internal numbers are similar.
> “People have 250 percent more meetings every day than they did before the pandemic,” says Mary Czerwinski, the research manager of the Human Understanding and Empathy group at Microsoft.
i do all of those things while working from home. i wear my normal clothes, work from coffee shops or breweries if I need a change of scenery, and workout plenty during the day. no offense, but perhaps this is specific to how _you_ work from home?
a) Being obliged to put on clothes and leave the house.
b) Spending a large part of the day at a change of scenery.
c) Having other people there, around, ambiently.
Spending 23 hours a day alone in your room + 1 hour for outdoor exercise, with occasional weekend visitation, is among the worst punishments the state has at its disposal. It boggles the mind that people do this voluntarily.