Cool, I'm planning to use it for a lifetime. The point is that you didn't just use the monthly number because it's extremely low as far as paid software subscriptions go...
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And I don't do this:
> Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero.
So I don't end up worrying about:
> For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time, but suddenly you're paying a whole cable bill for marginal value.
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> I don't want the service, just sell me the program.
First off you literally just said:
> Money for service is fine, but this is a long term thing, and I'm not going to pay $180 per 5 years to keep 100KB in sync.
So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive...
But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that.
It's super cool that you want to get their hard work in the most personally beneficial way, but they have this very reasonably priced service that lets the people have the software, and them have their livelihood.
You can say "oh well I don't care about maintenance, I'll buy the new version if it's compatible with my OS", which again is super convenient for you... but once they hit plateaus in new users are they just supposed to pause development until old versions break?
If the utility of the program was so low you wouldn't be asking them for it without the service after all... if it's "just storing 100kb of text" there's plenty of other options out there.
10 cents a day for something that saves a lot of stress is a great price.
> So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive...
No, I don't. "Money for service" is fine as a principle. This particular service is something I don't want at all. Those can both be true at the same time.
> But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that.
I'm happy to pay for software updates. But software is supposed to last more than 10-16 months. Which is how often you'd be paying a reasonable shelf price of 30-50 dollars. Generally software can be expected to last ten years without trouble.
> very reasonably priced service
What's your definition of reasonable here? $20 a month is a great deal if that's the price of security! So $20 a month would be reasonable by that metric. But I think we can both agree that's too high. So how do we decide? And it can't just be that low dollar amounts are automatically reasonable, because we're not rounding to zero.
> If the utility of the program was so low you wouldn't be asking them for it without the service after all... if it's "just storing 100kb of text" there's plenty of other options out there.
I'd say the utility of the program is worth a solid $30-50. The program does all the good stuff. The program isn't the service. The program manages my passwords, the service just syncs a tiny file.
I can get the same syncing UX in most password managers just by logging into an existing account I already have. The stress of that one-time login is nothing. It's less stress than making a new account for 1password.
> No, I don't. "Money for service" is fine as a principle
My mistake for assuming you were talking about the thing being talked about
> What's your definition of reasonable here? $20 a month is a great deal if that's the price of security! So $20 a month would be reasonable by that metric. But I think we can both agree that's too high. So how do we decide? And it can't just be that low dollar amounts are automatically reasonable, because we're not rounding to zero.
This entire paragraph is just asking me how to price software, which is already a very well covered topic and there's no answer that will fit in this comment (there's also no one person who knows a definitive answer to it).
I mean part of why $3 is reasonable compared to $20 is less sticker shock... why is there less sticker shock for $3 but there is for $20? Why $9.99 instead of $10?
> I'm happy to pay for software updates. But software is supposed to last more than 10-16 months. Which is how often you'd be paying a reasonable shelf price of 30-50 dollars. Generally software can be expected to last ten years without trouble.
This still boils down to "what I want" while ignoring the reality the creators face.
Like, software companies have gone with your reality, and before 10 years passes up and you feel like it's time to upgrade... they're gone!
What you don't seem to understand is that the sustainability of the company has a premium here.
It's not just $3 for passwords, it's $3 so I have confidence I'm not relying on 1password having indefinite growth to have people work there.
> My mistake for assuming you were talking about the thing being talked about
I said buying it is "fine". Even if that was directed specifically to this service, that doesn't mean I want it.
> there's also no one person who knows a definitive answer
Then don't be so insistent that the price is good.
> Like, software companies have gone with your reality, and before 10 years passes up and you feel like it's time to upgrade... they're gone!
I'm not saying they have to do it that way, I just think it's a reasonable way to calculate the price of the functionality.
If they want a steadier income that's fine, but wanting a full retail paycheck every single year is going too far.
> It's not just $3 for passwords, it's $3 so I have confidence I'm not relying on 1password having indefinite growth to have people work there.
On the other hand, worrying about whether companies will be around for the long term is a big reason I dislike subscriptions.
That $3 doesn't guarantee they'll still be around. And for a simple product like this, the more ambitious they get the more worried I get.
Also this company is an order of magnitude or two bigger than "sustainable". The only way they would stop selling a password manager is because of bad management or because they choose to pivot into a different market. They're not going to have insufficient money to pay the staff of their core product.
You've thrown any sort of internal consistency so far out the window at this point, I don't think you even know what you're saying anymore.
You start by implying there's something wrong with insisting on the quality of a price then...
> If they want a steadier income that's fine, but wanting a full retail paycheck every single year is going too far.
Right. So you're now you're not just saying that the subscription model is bad, you're saying that you've decided what a full retail paycheck for their software is.
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You say:
> That $3 doesn't guarantee they'll still be around
> for a simple product like this, the more ambitious they get the more worried I get.
> Also this company is an order of magnitude or two bigger than "sustainable"
Yet it's all exactly the reason why this is true:
> They're not going to have insufficient money to pay the staff of their core product.
I mean how do you think 1Password reached the size where you're essentially calling them "too big to fail"?
They did the ramen noodle "sustainable" thing, and they'd be a footnote if they had stayed there. Instead they were ambitious, they scaled, they took people's money in a way that works for them, and now some internet person is simultaneously saying "They're so successful they'll never fail if they don't want to" and "Why are they doing what they did to reach that point???"
> Right. So you're now you're not just saying that the subscription model is bad, you're saying that you've decided what a full retail paycheck for their software is.
Did you forget that they used to sell it that way? And there are competitors with similar prices. We know what retail price is.
> "Why are they doing what they did to reach that point???"
I never asked that.
They raised their prices so they'd make more money, obviously.
When I say it's too expensive for me, that's not me being confused about why they charge that much.
I'd rather pay for a product plus some profits plus some scaling, and not pay for a product plus some profits plus extremely aggressive scaling.
They can both keep a company around for a long time, and the former might even be better for that.
Like you said a couple comments up, I want "confidence I'm not relying on 1password having indefinite growth to have people work there". The more they focus on very fast growth, the less I have of that confidence.
> I mean how do you think 1Password reached the size where you're essentially calling them "too big to fail"?
They reached a safe size before they switched to forcing subscriptions.
Cool, I'm planning to use it for a lifetime. The point is that you didn't just use the monthly number because it's extremely low as far as paid software subscriptions go...
-
And I don't do this:
> Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero.
So I don't end up worrying about:
> For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time, but suddenly you're paying a whole cable bill for marginal value.
-
> I don't want the service, just sell me the program.
First off you literally just said:
> Money for service is fine, but this is a long term thing, and I'm not going to pay $180 per 5 years to keep 100KB in sync.
So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive...
But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that.
It's super cool that you want to get their hard work in the most personally beneficial way, but they have this very reasonably priced service that lets the people have the software, and them have their livelihood.
You can say "oh well I don't care about maintenance, I'll buy the new version if it's compatible with my OS", which again is super convenient for you... but once they hit plateaus in new users are they just supposed to pause development until old versions break?
If the utility of the program was so low you wouldn't be asking them for it without the service after all... if it's "just storing 100kb of text" there's plenty of other options out there.
10 cents a day for something that saves a lot of stress is a great price.