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"To be eligible to live in the village, applicants need to meet three basic criteria: they must demonstrate financial need, have lived in Augsburg for at least two years and be of Catholic faith."

Is this legal? I mean the faith part...



Absolutely. The German constitution mandates students be able to obtain religious education in public school as part of regular curriculum, prohibits the government from interfering in any religious organization and mandates that the government collect member tithes as part of tax collection for any religious group registered as a PLC at their request.

The ruling party of Germany is expressly religious, the Christian Democratic Union. There's religious pluralism in Germany and all religions have the same benefits, but the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America.


Regarding the church tax, if you move to Germany you'll be ask what religion your are and unless you answer atheist you'll have to start paying a church tax and it appears to be quite a hassle to get out of it.

https://www.settle-in-berlin.com/stop-paying-german-church-t...


The same system exists in Switzerland. While living there, and after registering, a priest visited my home to investigate our nonbeliever status. My spouse inadvertently mentioned her Jewish ancestry, at which point the priest offered to send a Rabbi instead, before she could say that she wasn’t then and had never been observant.


> and it appears to be quite a hassle to get out of it.

Five minutes at the local courthouse, 20 Euros or so, and it's effective next month.

Of course, during Corona it can be more difficult to get an appointment, and the fee can vary from state to state, but all in all it's easy to get out.


You declare not being part of an officially recognised church, not being atheist. Muslims don't pay these taxes as these is no recognised Islam "church". Getting out is easy, depending on where you live. It took me about 10 minutes, signing a paper at the Standesamt, and out I was. Got a nice letter from "my" community priest giving me a chance to rethink that while threating me with hell, pretty directly so.


It's Corona, there's no Standesamt available (no joke).


"Church tax in Germany is a 8-9% surcharge on top of your income tax."

That is a stunning amount. I wonder how many Berlin based Startup Developers are having a second look at the salary receipt right now...


Slight clarification here, it is way less than 8-9% of your gross salary. I had a look when I was a church member, and it was 2% of my gross salary. It was indeed 8% of the amount of my income tax.

I think the way it is calculated (depending on the federal state your in): Gross salary -> income tax -> 8 to 9% of the income tax = church tax.


At least in Christianity, 10% is the traditional donation to the Church. So that doesn't necessarily sound out of line. On the other hand, some people split the 10% between the Church and secular charities which wouldn't be possible in this case.


But besides the money collection there are also the tax exemptions right? It looks lovely...

"The foundation deed specified that the housing complex was to exist “in perpetuity” and to be “further developed.” The philosophy behind it can be summarized as being to “provide assistance, not charity, to people in need so they can help themselves.” There are a total of nine foundations established by the Fugger family in Augsburg that have been in continuous existence since the 16th century. In addition to the Fuggerei, there are medical facilities, an infirmary, and a foundation to contribute to the salvation of the Fugger family, among others. According to an inscription on a tablet displayed at the Fuggerei, the Fugger family established the foundation to “reimburse God the money that he has generously bestowed upon the family.”

"Paupers or beggars are not eligible. A person that has been accepted for residence is required to say three daily prayers for the Fugger family"

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/08/500-year-anniversary-of-th...

Its going for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family

And many foundations: https://www.fugger.de/en/foundations

I am sorry ...the business man in me...every time I see the word foundation I see only one thing. Only business vehicle where you are tax exempt... while at the same time still benefiting from the foundation assets.

"Forget about the Gates Foundation. The world’s biggest charity owns IKEA — which is not only devoted to interior design."

https://medium.com/@jurgeng/ikeas-tax-scheme-a-corporate-str...

https://ikeafoundation.org/


> all religions have the same benefits

That is true in theory but not in practice. To be recognized you need to be organized as a Körperschaft öffentlichen Rechts which isn't exactly trivial. In practice the Catholic church and the "Evangelical church of Germany" (a confederation of various mostly independent parishes, mostly Lutheran) are the two big ones and everything else barely passes as a rounding error (e.g. there seems to be only one Muslim organization and while they reflect a sect mostly originating in Turkey, they're hardly the largest Muslim sect in Germany).

Also for example the two primary public broadcasting channels ARD and ZDF have a Catholic and Lutheran bias (although this mostly manifests in a handful of very short theological opinion pieces paid for by the respective churches and clergy of the two religious orientations being invited every time ethical concerns are discussed).

Saying "all religions have the same benefit" is a lot like saying all people are equally forbidden from sleeping under bridges regardless of their income. It's not exactly an equal playing field and a lot of the influence of the churches comes down to not just the number of registered members but also feudal property rights and pre-existing contracts (e.g. the Catholic church is one of the few entities that legitimately "owns" land in Germany whereas normally legal subjects are only granted "ownership" conditionally).

And let's not get into public sector institutions like hospitals and schools being operated by one of the two churches and personnel being subject to church labor laws while the majority of the operating costs (in some cases even 100%) are footed by the state.

We only call it pluralism because Martin Luther was successful. Much like our so-called federalism (because Germany was still a lose collection of functionally mostly independent states until around the time of the American Civil War) it's really more of an accident of history that we later rebranded as something desirable.


It has been argued that the complete implosion of Christianity in the Netherlands was due to the creation of a welfare state.

The Church was replaced by an irreligious state and that was it.


I am sorry but I have a follow up question maybe you are able to elaborate as you mentioned: "There's religious pluralism in Germany"

Scientology has an IRS tax exemption in the US as another religion, but it seems in Germany the state has made their life quite difficult. Does German law provides for a clear specification of how to define a religion?


They defined Scientology as a pyramid scheme (rightly) because of its “pay for revelation” business model.

Probably not the most meaningful example as Scientology had to be pretty egregious to get disqualified.


> They defined Scientology as a pyramid scheme (rightly) because of its “pay for revelation” business model.

but "pay for indulgences" is fine?


The direct sale of indulgences has been prohibited by the Catholic church since 1567. I don't think it's very relevant here.


You will not find an advocate of Scientology in me :-)) But you will find an advocate of equal treatment under the law and the rule of law.

Apparently members have stronger restrictions than those applied to persons who express extreme right views:

"Scientologists in Germany face specific political and economic restrictions. They are barred from membership in some major political parties, and businesses and other employers use so-called "sect filters" to expose a prospective business partner's or employee's association with the organization."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_Germany

I am just trying to check who are the committees who define what is an acceptable religion, how and under what legal framework.


As I said, not defending Scientology here at all, but from the wikipedia article found this case interesting:

"In 2019, the Munich Labor court sided with the director of personnel of Haus der Kunst, a well-known artistic museum. He had been removed from his position after working for 22 years because it was discovered that he was a Scientologist. The case was settled and the director of personnel was paid 110,000 euro as severance and received a full pension. Many Germany courts also ruled the legitimacy of Scientology as a religion. In 2019, Ahmed Shaheed and Fernand de Varennes who were UN Special Rapporteurs on freedom of religion and on minority issues wrote to Germany that, "discriminating against those who profess a certain belief is illegal under international human rights law, irrespective of whether the belief is religious or merely philosophical or cultural."


That sounds pretty fair to me. It's one thing to punish an individual for having a belief; it's another to give an organization a tax break for a Ponzi scheme based on that same belief.


In the case of political parties: they decide themselves. The large parties all have lists of clubs and informal organizations where membership is incompatible with party membership.

(No major party allows membership in another party, except european sister parties in other countries, but it's possible, and some smaller parties allow it)


in your quote, it says that private businesses and political parties are making these decisions. that's likely done as part of their regular screening processes.


So...If a business would decide to screen a candidate for the their Muslim or Jewish faith that would be what?


That would be a violation of the general act on equal treatment (introduced 2006), and hence referred to the state's attorney's office. Scientology does not enjoy the protection of religion or worldview because the organisation is under surveillance from the federal office for the protection of the constitution because of their politically motivated crimes.


>Scientology has an IRS tax exemption in the US as another religion, but it seems in Germany the state has made their life quite difficult.

Scientology's founder has been quoted as saying: "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” German courts have argued that because of this (and the organization's behavior after he died) that it's actually a for-profit business organization masquerading as a religion.

EDIT: I probably should add that the US is rather extreme amongst nations worldwide in that it does tend to recognize personal conviction rather than only shared dogma/tradition as a form of 'religion'. It's unlikely but I could see the organization losing tax-exempt status. Even if this happened, the individuals couldn't be prohibited from practicing what they believe is a religion.


The US never affirmatively recognized Scientology as a legitimate religious organization. Rather, Scientology fought a prolonged, dirty war with the IRS and came out the victor when the IRS decided to settle. Because of anti-tax sentiment that daemonizes the IRS, the IRS doesn't have the stomach for prolonged battles that play out in the media. The public is too credulous when the defendant invariably plays the Samson & Goliath card. (Trump has also successfully used this technique. I once had a law professor who worked on an IRS case against Trump, and he had some interesting stories--not to mention strong opinions--regarding Trump's business practices. Actually, anyone of means caught in the IRS' cross-hairs will use this technique. But you have to be particularly bellicose, as in the Scientology and Trump cases, to flagrantly violate tax laws with the intention of taking the IRS to the mat.)

It's also worth pointing out that, unlike some other countries, the US doesn't really have a formal system for recognizing religious organizations. AFAIU, the closest thing we have is the IRS adjudicating in the first instance Federal tax exemption status. Otherwise, as a general matter, a religion is as a religion does, and it's usually up to agencies, municipalities, and ultimately courts to decide on a dispute-by-dispute basis whether an organization, group, or person is owed the benefit of some particular religious exception in law.


Side note, Jedi is the fourth largest religion in the UK. I wonder if Disney have considered registering it as an official religion to lower their tax bill there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon


Despite (or maybe because? ) of all of this religion plays a much smaller role both in everyday life as well as politics compared to the US.


It's exactly because of it. This cooperative system gives the state significant control over the church, which was the original reason for this sort of semi-public funding. German priests are trained in public universities and the state has influence on the curriculum. Them most extreme form of religions you will always find outside of the system.


> the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America

.. pretty sure you can set up religious sponsored/focused housing in NA as well


Why not? You can do that in the US too.




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