This is huge. As someone who is involved in the digital nomad community here in Chiang Mai, Thailand - getting incorporation and processing set up for a lot of people here is very difficult.
Although places like Thailand are a great place for independent bootstrapping and there’s a solid network of entrepreneurs - one of the biggest hurdles is incorporation, banking and acquiring. This is taken for granted when you’re living in a first world country - but for the new location independent entrepreneur who is building their startup from cafes or coworking spaces in Chiang Mai to Ho Chi Minh or Medellin, getting a corporation, processing and a bank account structured is often a huge problem.
You don't need the US for that though. You can incorporate for example in Hong Kong with ease and even better tax advanteges.
For digital nomads in Thailand I think the bigger problem is that they can't get long term visas and are effectively breaking the law unless they somehow work for a local company which isn't easy as those need 4 Thais employed for every foreigner.
And even if you could get a corporate bank account here, the banks usually don't have good connections to other countries and the systems they use are not exactly flexible. Plus the bank staff usually doesn't know jack shit about anything.
Thailand is great for the food, climate, cheap living costs and culture. But it's really bad for foreigners who want to start a digital business.
Hong Kong is a great place to incorporate for tax advantages, but a terrible place for getting merchant processing or a bank account.
Remote openings are not possible. You can fly to Hong Kong and open a bank account in person, and they may (or may not) open one for you - but getting payment processing for a Hong Kong corporation with no processing history is basically impossible for the average person.
I have a Hong Kong company and I know many people who also have Hong Kong companies, and I speak from experience.
As for your other points about Thailand, you’d be wrong about that also - Thailand has no problem with you working independently or from coffee shops at all, it is not against the law and getting long term visas or even self-funded work permits for long stays is trivial.
As for companies, you can set up a BOI company for technology corps which is tax exempt for the first 8 years and the 4 thais for every foreigner rule is not applied, as I have.
However, in a round about way you have proved my point - living in these types of locations is preferable, but doing business here is usually not. Hence, why people incorporate elsewhere and the Stripe Atlas product nails it.
I have not found it difficult to get a corporate bank account and merchant account in the past in Hong Kong with HSBC. Yes you have to go there in person but I don't see this as a big deal. We had CC processing and your agents should have contacts to get you set up. Things might have changed in recent years.
And no I am not wrong. If you don't have a work permit which you get by working for a Thai company, you are breaking the law as you are not allowed to work without a permit. Full stop. I have not said that working out of a coffeeshop is illegal.
Long term visa again only by working for a local company. And if you go for the fake 4 Thais emploees route, sure that can work but you can get into trouble anyways because you are effectively working around the law.
Setting up a Bord of Investors company is not a trivial thing. It can take up to half a year, you'll have to pass the interview at the HQ in BKK and show some real company prospects. This is not something for someone who does web design or coding for some foreign company out of his condo in Chiang Mai. It's for people who want to build a real physical business in Thailand.
Much easier to incorporate somewhere else.
Yeah, things have changed in recent years in HK. HSBC HK has a horrible reputation now and they are very resistant to do corporate account openings and prefer your company is resident or doing business in HK.
Regarding long stay visas in Thailand - as I said, getting a long term visa or work permit is very simple you can do it through a company who will sponsor you for a modest fee. If you are interested I can provide you with links.
My BOI did take some time, you are right, but the process was relatively simple as I used an agency - but totally worth it.
Yes - much easier to incorporate somewhere else. Your experience with HK/HSBC opening a merchant account is simply not a reality anymore for the majority of people, particularly without processing history, nor is it in other countries using HK.
Anyway, this product offering from Stripe is a genuine game changer for people who want to operate from the US, want a business in a box and want to set it up remotely. I know many, many people who will jump on it.
>> Yeah, things have changed in recent years in HK. HSBC HK has a horrible reputation now and they are very resistant to do corporate account openings and prefer your company is resident or doing business in HK.
Good to know. Though it's kinda sad as HK really used to be a great place for business. I've seen similar changes in
>> Regarding long stay visas in Thailand - as I said, getting a long term visa or work permit is very simple you can do it through a company who will sponsor you for a modest fee. If you are interested I can provide you with links.
Yea but many such offerings are just circumventing the law and here in the south at least a couple of these companies got into trouble. And by trouble I mean the usual extortion by immigration/police.
Especially companies with nominees that hold the other 51% for you are getting more and more attention.
>> My BOI did take some time, you are right, but the process was relatively simple as I used an agency - but totally worth it.
Hehe the typical Thai way. Find someone (agency) who knows someone that makes the decision. Pay the agent a "service fee" from which a nice chunk goes to the official to incentivize a smooth process :)
>> Yes - much easier to incorporate somewhere else. Your experience with HK/HSBC opening a merchant account is simply not a reality anymore for the majority of people, particularly without processing history, nor is it in other countries using HK.
Again said to hear.
>> Anyway, this product offering from Stripe is a genuine game changer for people who want to operate from the US, want a business in a box and want to set it up remotely. I know many, many people who will jump on it.
Undoubtedly the offering from Stripe will be helpful for many people. Somehow I get the feeling that the US pushed other countries hard to make incorporation and especially bank account opening much harder in the guise of fighting terrorism and crime while itself trying to make it simpler. An interesting economic strategy.
> If you are interested I can provide you with links.
Yes, please.
Also may I ask, what's your view of Singapore as a jurisdiction for digital nomad incorporation? Braintree already supports it for payments, and Stripe is in "private beta"...
It's really cheap and easy to incorporate in the UK. Costs £15 and takes ten minutes [1]
The downside, if you care about such things, is that the company register [2] is freely available online too, so it's not one to go for if privacy is your goal.
Of course, never a HN thread about remote working without a Thailand subthread!
> in Thailand I think the bigger problem is that they can't get long term visas
To put this in perspective though, the longest visa I've ever seen here was a 3-year non-working business visa - effectively it's meant for people who regularly travel to Thailand for business meetings/etc but don't regularly "work" here (I know how stupid that sounds).
Other than that, the maximum visa for anything is 12 months. So while the 30/60/90 day stays are not great if you're doing a dodgy and working on a tourist visa, having a business visa + work permit is hardly a barrel of laughs. A Marriage visa is marginally easier, but obviously implies that you have a thai spouse.
> Thailand is great for the food, climate, cheap living costs and culture. But it's really bad for foreigners who want to start a digital business.
Having lived in several parts of Australia and operating as a sole-trader (similar to a single person LLC in the US I guess?), honestly the hassles to live + work in Thailand are a PITA but IMO they're worth it.
I can totally relate to your experience, and this is exactly why I started building a startup one year ago with 2 partners with this exact same goal:
Help companies get online ASAP, company incorporation, facilitate business bank accounts opening, negotiate excellent deals when it comes to online transaction fees and so on. We can also help integrate virtually any payment service provider in your IT system.
We'd love to hear from the issues you encountered and would happily provide you with advice, or more in-depth accompaniment.
Just drop me an email at t+stripe-atlas-HN [at] mekloud.com and we'll get back to you!
i can also vouch for this. I founded and ran a software company in Thailand for 8 years, and regret doing it the "right" way (incorporated) because of the administrative burdens associated with taxation. Additionally due to US banking laws (anti terror yadda yadda) it is very difficult to do business on the internet unless you have a bank account in the USA (or perhaps EU etc.. just an account somewhere besides Thailand).
> due to US banking laws (anti terror yadda yadda) it is very difficult to do business on the internet unless you have a bank account in the USA
Can you expand on what you mean by this some more?
I operated from Australia as a sole trader (similar to single person LLC in the US I believe?) and I'm now the Director of a Thai Limited Company. In neither case did I have a "US" bank account.
With literally one exception in.. 8 years, I've always been paid by clients via bank-to-bank Wire Transfers (the one exception used TransferWise). I've never had any issue with payments not arriving/not being processed?
In the last 12 months I've been using my Thai bank's NYC branch to allow US clients to make an ACH payment, and the NYC branch of my bank then handles the transfer back to Thailand.
Are you talking about B2B payments or consumer payments?
Yup it's really frustrating and ineffective to form a company here in Thailand. They really don't want all that startup money even though they could really make use of it.
Try Hong Kong, Singapore or other stable and modern countries with rule of law. You wont have much trouble doing online business.
There's some really misleading information on that site. Tax rates are misleading and just plain wrong in some cases. I'd take information on that site with a pound of salt.
Unrelated but i'll be in Chiang Mai next month for a couple of days, could you give some names of interesting cafe/coworking space there? I'll be with my gf (a designer) that is also interested in digital nomadism so would be great to meet people doing that
Hate to tell you this but you chose the worst time of year to come. Google “Burning Season Chiang Mai” - I’d recommend sticking to the south of Thailand, particularly the islands, and then come up around April 10 for Songkran. Punspace is the big coworking space, I’d recommend booking a place in Nimman and trying the various cafes there. Kaweh is a good spot if its not too busy.
Yup, ignore anyone who understates the problem (some prominent voices in the nomad forums are either in denial or have a vested interest), it is absolutely lethal during March and April. I love Chiang Mai but will be leaving on Friday night, probably returning mid-May.
Although places like Thailand are a great place for independent bootstrapping and there’s a solid network of entrepreneurs - one of the biggest hurdles is incorporation, banking and acquiring. This is taken for granted when you’re living in a first world country - but for the new location independent entrepreneur who is building their startup from cafes or coworking spaces in Chiang Mai to Ho Chi Minh or Medellin, getting a corporation, processing and a bank account structured is often a huge problem.