But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.
The article states that research shows no correlation between severe drug penalties and usage levels.
There's a few people offering anecdotes to counter that, but obviously actual research wins, the difference between Portugal and Japan are therefore likely to be cultural differences outside of strict drug laws.
Japan and HK both have significant organized crime that controls the flow of drugs into the country and drives the price way up. In Japan's case the Yakuza has effectively banned certain drugs they consider "too dangerous".
Source: I had Japanese roommates in college who turned out to be potheads. They raved about the super-cheap marijuana they could get in the US, which was 1/5 to 1/10th the price as was available in Japan.
Japan has low crime rates because there is no visible underclass like blacks in America or immigrants in Europe.
There are drugs that are partly or fully banned in other countries that are freely prescribed here (rohypnol, for example).
Mushrooms weren't banned at all until recently.
An ex's brother was prosecuted for weed but let off after paying a fine. Another guy I knew who sold was let off in exchange for his cellphone contacts.
The Ainu barely exist anymore, and the whole thing about the Burakumin is that they aren't visible and all their descendants hide any connection. A better example would be the Korean descendant population, but that's still a tiny fraction of the population. (I think 1 million out of 130 million or <1%?) So there's no good comparison in Japan to the ~17% African-American population.
There are hardly any pure Ainu anymore and they did not rebel against Japanese culture when they were discriminated against. Burakumin is more of a "They work in the wrong business" discrimination and is not based on skin color or a look. Burakumin tend to be Japanese in the Japanese culture and are not really outsiders.
Very had to compare to Japan because Japan essentially legalize organized crime. Yakuza are allowed to operate as long as the follow a minimum set of laws.
Basically Japan is following a tradeoff where they have chosen organized crime of lots of unorganized or violent crime.
So it will be very hard to compare such a system with a western country which deals with these issues in such a different manner.
I can mention that drug use is fairly low in my home country Norway as well despite pretty lax laws.
We are doing something very wrong with respect to heavier drugs like heroin though since we have a lot of overdose cases. But Switzerland and the Netherlands seems to be quite good at this and they have very liberal laws.
Very good point; however one thing to keep in mind that in Japan, Singapore, HK etc., drugs use is seen by the great majority as a huge moral failure and a failure to the family. Social pressure and stigma of drugs use is much more severe. It's not glamorized as "stupid things teenagers do". It's vilified as "the depraved things failed human beings do". Interestingly this tack isn't one western societies have used in their toolbox to counter drugs abuse.
I am not sure that having a strong cultural identity as anything to do with drugs consumption. For example, I am pretty sure Russians also have a fairly homogenous population with a strong identity, and they still have an alcohol problem (for other reason I am sure). But I can't see the correlation or the causation here.
Just add another example, beef consumption is very low in Hindu countries even for non-Hindus. Similar observations are true for Muslim areas and pork consumption. Case in point is that a strong cultural identity can bring about a soft enforcement of certain practices (in Japan's case potentially help to explain lower drug consumption rates).
Worth also noting that in Asian countries, attitudes to and awareness about drugs are very extreme. Beyond being far more socially deplorable, most people also harbour ignorant views on the physical harm drugs can and can't cause. There is also less glamorisation of it in media.
>I am not sure that having a strong cultural identity as anything to do with drugs consumption.
Why can't it? Drug use could be socially shunned, counter to cultural norms. Consider Islamic countries where alcohol use is haram. Consider also that alcohol use in both Japan and Russia is culturally accepted. Alcoholism is a significant problem in Japan too.
HK has insane amounts of expats, significant amounts of which smoke weed. Probably almost half the expats I met, mostly rich young folks though so it's not surprising at all.
If you're white and walking around during the night you'll constantly be approached by people trying to sell you weed and coke. (Steep prices, but significantly easier to find than in most western cities)
Edit: Wrote that in a bit of a hurry. When talking about HK you need to take into account the massive income inequality between expats and many of the locals working "normal" jobs.
Weed is rather expensive for many of the locals, but for some western bankers making 10k+ USD a month it's a relatively cheap way to take a break from the rather hectic life in HK.
The rational conclusion seems to be that whether drugs are legal, or decriminalized, are, at best, only part of what determines levels of drug use and drug-related crime.
China, too, have a far lower drug use rate. Not sure for Japan and Hk, but for China I think there are two main reasons. One, she was "locked in turmoil" during the 70s and the 80s, so did not get the influence from this period. Two, most young people are busy making their life, and have actually good hope to have a much better life than their parents (which is not that difficult).
China has a problem with Ketamine addiction, not helped by whole villages that mass produce the drug. There was a good documentary about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxXvTi3QRwA
China certainly has drug problems, but it is not like in West: i'd have to search carefully to find one French guy of my generation or below that never tried hash. In China most Chinese I know never tried. It's just not the fashion yet. Only a very thin slice of the society is in contact with drugs.
And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.
And yet there are lots of European countries with low crime rates and liberal drug laws and low usage. That is the point. There is no clear correlation here.
But these asian countries and the european ones do have a number of things in common which is different from the US. Neither has poverty problems on the scale found in the US. Neither have racial conflict at the level found in the US.
And how comparable is really Singapore? It is a single city, tightly controlled with 3x the police force of a regular western country, where they practice DDR like surveillance in the sense that citizens are taught to report each other for all sorts of minor transgressions.
The US is a lot more similar to Europe so if one was ever too look at alternative policies I think looking at European experiences makes a lot more sense for the US than looking at Asian countries which are vastly different historically, culturally and in what political system they currently employ.
This is a dubious claim. How do you actually identify the number of people who are addicted? Even if there are fewer people addicted to the very few currently illegal drugs, are there fewer people addicted altogether?
I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.
I think that what gets down-voted is more the implication that making drugs offences capital crimes is the chief reason Singapore and Indonesia have lower drug usage rates.
I believe that more significant influencing factors are that drug usage is socially unacceptable Singapore and Indonesia, that citizens are more willing to accept government control over their private activities, that drugs are harder to acquire.
It seems more likely that those countries are able to have capital punishment for (what the West would consider to be) minor drugs offences precisely _because_ drug use is already low and drug users are more consistently vilified by society.
Yeah, for evidence of the impact culture has, look at alcohol. In almost all countries it is treated similarly: after 16-18 years old, drinking is legal. Yet there are vast differences in addiction rates and per-capita consumption.
Execution is a very drastic drug-related harm. If we killed everyone at age 50 then cancer rates would fall drastically, but it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that we had effectively solved the cancer problem.
It is worth noting that Indonesia have changed their drug policies in recent years and are moving towards a medicalised rather than criminalised approach to drug use, largely as a response to rising rates of HIV infection amongst injecting drug users.
I didn't downvote, but others may have downvoted because you didn't give any sources, and you don't expand on your statement. Yes, there are fewer drug users in Singapore and Japan, but they are historically and culturally extremely different to the USA.
I'm not convinced on Indonesia[1] and Hong Kong[2]; I've visited both myself several times, and drugs were easily available.
I downvoted you because you're simply wrong with a couple of those countries, for example in Hong Kong there's a plenty of drug users. The statistics just aren't reported like they are in some western countries.
Singapore only executes drug dealers, producers and traffickers. This hasn't really had a significant effect on drug availability, and it still remains a major transit point for drug trafficking in Asia.
