Verlan slang is associated with lower classes and rough neighbourhoods. If you use it in your everyday speech along with "ouais" and "putain" every other sentence (which some people do), it does not do you any favour.
Replying to a question with "ouais" is rude in French if you're not chatting with your friends.
That's an exageration. Other than in an uptight office setting or by the employees in a refined establishment, these words (especially "ouais") are considered familiar but not rude to your interlocutor.
"tromé" might be a bit too young-sounding for general use, but nothing to do with politeness or social class. The well-off Parisian youth love to use these words.
It is certainly isn't an exaggeration. Being familiar to people you do not know is rude: You do not address a stranger with 'tu' but with 'vous', for example.
But 'ouais' is not just familiar, as is in "perfectly fine with people you know", it is lacking manners. Generations of French mothers, teachers, etc. have spent a lot of time scolding children who answered them using "ouais" instead of "oui", as another commenter mentioned. In general it is fine between friends or colleagues, though.
'Putain' is very rude outside of very familiar banter among friends and colleagues.
'tromé', and verlan in general, is quite low social class.
If people here on HN want to learn French then it is obviously useful to know these words but they should not use them. You never get into trouble for speaking properly...
I understand what you're saying, its absence denotes a level of speech that is advised in certain spheres, but describing it as "rude" would be confusing to a non-native. A stranger wouldn't just accidentally drop-in the French "haute-bourgeoisie".
Anywhere else, it is acceptable, don't get offended if someone says those words to you. I have literally heard it used in business meetings with the executives of top funds and companies.
Ouai instead of oui, is like yeah instead of yes. Putain is an interjection of surprise or anger, like when you leave your flat with the door closing behind you only to realize the keys are left inside, that's when you scream putain (fuck). These are not inverse words.
Long story short, most of everything else discussed in this thread is not appropriate. If you address women as meuf (hoe), your friendship and romantic prospects will dwindle like an ice cream under the sun.
If that's how you talk in an interview or on a date, you're out in less than 5 minutes (they may wait the end of hour to show you the door, they are not monster -unlike you-).
It is not acceptable unless you know it is. Saying that using these word is perfectly acceptable is what can only confuse non-native speakers because they then might use them when they shouldn't and then don't understand why they are getting funny looks.
Language in business can be quite spicy but you don't use that language to address your local baker if you have the most basic manners (granted, many people don't).
I agree that non native speakers shouldn't use those words, just because understanding the peculiarities of when it is appropriate is quite difficult.
But those words are, broadly speaking, perfectly acceptable in many situations. Two 20-something or 30-something friends will use "ouais" (and "yeah"), "putain" (and "fuck" or "damn") and even potentially "cette meuf" (and "that dude") without any issue. You wouldn't use those in professional settings in French or in English.
> Two 20-something or 30-something friends will use "ouais" (and "yeah"), "putain" (and "fuck" or "damn") and even potentially "cette meuf" (and "that dude") without any issue
Isn't that exactly what I'm saying? Using those terms between friends (age is irrelevant and those terms are not just for the 'young') may be OK but you would not use them to even talk to a stranger in the street or in a shop if you have basic manners.
My main issue is with your use of the phrase "basic manners". This isn't a question of manners. It's like speaking Spanish in a French bakery: it's not rude, it's just not the right context. Similarly if you start vouvoyer your child, it's not "bad manners" it's just not done.
It's rude in the same context that "yeah" is rude. So ok, there are times when it's more appropriate to answer with "yes", but there are many situations outside of chatting with my friends where I would be comfortable saying "ouais".
Also, verlan is used all the time by everyone under the age of 30. Not all of it; some terms are rarer than others and are, as you say, associated with rough neighborhoods. But it's an extremely common way of speaking.
Lol idk what your experience is but mine is that verlan has basically permeated all casual conversations among everyone under 40. I guess you'd look a bit odd if you hung around the kind of people who take pride in not using any of that language but in practice virtually everyone uses verlan in one way or another.
Also, using slang isn't as frowned upon as it can be in America. Again, idk your experience but mine is that people swear left and right in casual conversation without anyone giving them a side glance. Of course in formal contexts such as addressing strangers in the street or greeting your baker you don't want ot, but the moment familiarity sets in you can be sure swearwords are going to pop all the time.
I think "Verlan" is kind of old fashioned. It was a lot cooler when the boomers were young IMHO.
Some Verlan words are still in common use in the "banlieues" (i.e. rough neighborhoods), like saying "muff" instead of "femme", "tromé" instead of "métro", "chelou" instead of "louche", etc...
But there are many other slang words in use. A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too.
It's probably hard for an English speaking tourist to hang out in these areas. But if you want to get a "feel" for it, I would recommend watch "Spiral" which are some stereotypical "banlieues" scenes. But I suppose it's better than nothing... or going to the "four" to buy drugs.
>A lot of borrowings from English ("cash") or Arabic ("flouz" meaning "money") are used too.
Flouze isn't a recent borrowing. It came when Algeria was still French, probably through the Army. Like toubib, caoua, chouïa etc. It's not immigrant-specific.
There are new borrowings from Arabic, and they're usually very noticeable and have strong social implications. Similar to the Spanish used by Latino-Americans in everyday English.
Upon further reflection, my observation's mostly a straw man. HIPAA covers a patient's face when a dermatologist takes an image just as a x-ray covers a bone structure.
Privacy is hard to talk and reason about without defining everything specifically.
This projects images were sourced from Flickr. You can find medical imagery on Flickr reasonably easy as well it turns out.
I've heard that salaries are on average much lower but companies offering competitive wages do exist. Like you said, you will have an easier time fitting in and earn more if you work for an international company rather than a Japanese one.
I'm a software engineer in an American tech company's Tokyo office with 1 yoe and have around ¥13M total comp.
That's nuts, I have 4 yoe and only on like ¥5M. Like a parent comment stated I am content with low pay and carrying an entire team with several years exp on me, though. You don't come to Japan for the money, or at least I didn't. Good to hear you found a well paying org (I hope you can get the chance to use and learn Japanese there as well).
Unfortunately I speak mostly English all day. I'll speak Japanese when interacting with a Japanese colleague directly but everything else is in English. I have to work actively to improve my language skills.
I'm glad to hear you're happy but I hope you try to move to a company that will pay you what you're worth. For a software engineer and team leader, that's way more than ¥5M.
Yeah. It’s a fairly small and young company (5ish years) so I knew I’d be taking a paydrop but I think the experience and Japanese practice was worth it! There are tons of tech events you can use Japanese at, try finding them on compass.com. As long as you turn up and try to speak amd socialize you’ll find your Japanese improving rapidly.
Glad you found a good position with a solid salary! Good engineers who speak English and Japanese are hard to come by, get your languages skills up a hit and you’ll be able to work anywhere you want.
Like I mentioned in another comment, I've heard that companies listed on devjobs.jp pay well. In general companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Indeed try to match their salaries as they're competing for the same pool of talent. I work for one of those. I know an engineer with 3-4yoe who got a very good offer from Mercari (~17M)
devjobs.jp is a good place to start. American companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Indeed pay well. I know a front end engineer with a few years of experience who got an offer from Mercari for 17M.
Continuing the amazing course on https://www.nand2tetris.org/. I also received an HP microserver gen8 a few days ago and will be setting up a plex server with sonarr/radarr/ombi/etc...
Yeah, there are equivalents in the yellow/white pages industry, from what I've heard. That wikipedia page shows that it doesn't always work, but it is an interesting idea.
