I'm Danish and like every other western country Palantir want's to mass survailance us (and we apparently sadly want them to do it too despite the whole Greenland thing). I can't tell you how it'll shift power from the cultural elite to the working class because that's not what we're seeing. We're seeing AI shift power from the cultural elite, and, the working class to the technical/financial elite.
It does so with survailance and information. In a free democratic society you can jaywalk when no car is around and be ok. In a survailance state, you can't, because it'll hurt your social credit score. Similar to what we see in certain Asian countries, effectively making you a B class citizen. Jaywalking is just an example of course, because we've agreed that is technically illegal but basically every human when confronted with a situation like that outside of bureaucracy will think it's ok you crossed the completely empty road. They won't think it's ok if the road wasn't empty. Which is the nuance in the system, that the survailance bureaucracy doesn't have.
I like to think of it in dungeons and dragons alignments. Democracy is in the neutral zone, perhaps with a slight chaotic basis, but over all you don't want it to be either too lawful or too chaotic. If it goes too far either way the other side will suffer. The reason it can be a little biased toward chaotic is because chaotic people don't try to force their way on lawful people quite as much as the other way around.
I guess more working class men in America are lawful? Over all though, the people with the power will be the people with the information and the wealth to impact the bureaucracy.
Isn't part of why Apple's iPhone can be so expensive is because it's very easy to get actual human support for it when something goes wrong? You probably didn't make the mistake at Microsoft, but I've seen people look at the localized spreadsheet and miss the long term company wide spreadsheet completely. Often because the sales and support departments are so far from each other that they're basically two different companies working in different directions. Maybe Microsoft customer support is a bad place to measure these things because of the size, but around here quite a few banks have tried outsourcing their phone support to everything available and have come back because it cost them customers. Even customers who never phoned them.
That being said. Your example of customers calling for support on things they shpuld be capable of figuring out themselves in is probably where AI is going to shine as first line support. Once (if?) AI voice chat is good enough to replace chatbots we may not even realize we're talking with an AI unless it tells us.
>customers calling for support on things they shpuld be capable of figuring out themselves in is probably where AI is going to shine as first line support.
It certainly won't be cheap to run real-time AI voice chat, or any real-time AI chat. The AI costs that you currently see are heavily subsidized, just like OP's example of "VC backed competitors who are OK burning $$ to gain market share", it's the same. These AI companies are far from profitable, burning billions to insert themselves into customer support pipelines and everywhere else they can, and then the other foot will drop. Uber and Lyft are far more expensive today than when they started, and the price to run "AI" will also inflate when these companies have to pay off all the billions they've spent but didn't earn. I doubt it will end up costing much less if less at all than human support, with worse results.
>Isn't part of why Apple's iPhone can be so expensive is because it's very easy to get actual human support for it when something goes wrong?
Yeah, Apple has best in class support. They tried monetising it through Applecare but thats largely broken down.
I cant stand Apple for a lot of reasons, but their phone support, and everything behind that like training, is about as good as you can possibly hope to achieve.
> But do the humans need to actually understand the code? A "yes" means the bottleneck is understanding (code review, code inspection). A "no" means you can go faster, but at some risk.
I always thought of things like code reviews as semi pseudo-science in most cases. I've sat through meetings where developers obviously understand the code that they are reviewing, but where they didn't understand anything about the system as a whole. If your perfect function pulls on 800 external dependencies that you trust. Trust because it's too much of a hazzle to go through them. I'd argue that in this situation you don't understand your code at all. I don't think it matters and I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else in this regard. I only know how things work when it matters.
If anything, I think AI will increase human understanding without the need to write computer unfriendly code like "Clean Code", "DRY" and so on.
Have you met the average programmer on a thursday afternoon after a terrible week of little sleep, family issues and unnecessary meetings? When I'm in that state of mind myself I'm fairly confident that any LLM could explain my weeks work better than I could.
Code reviews are pseudo-science now? Computer unfriendly code? What are you talking about? Do you understand that this babble makes zero sense ? Are you one of those product managers who recently learned to vibe-code? If so, make sure your latest Replit project does not delete your production database..
Splitting your code up into multiple functions across multiple files is computer unfriendly code. It'll cause L1, L2 and L3 cache misses. Yet it's heailed as very human friendly and maintainable by Uncle Bob and his disciples. As far as code reviews go, do you have any form of evidence that it's not a pseudo science? If I look at our industry today, it's not like it's in better shape compared to where it was decades ago. Hell, some of our most important systems are still running COBOL. If all these methodologies and principles that people swear by actually worked, I'd argue that things would have improved over the previous 40 years.
I think AI is pretty terrible for a lot of things, and pretty great for a lot of things. Since I work in a NIS2 regulated field I can't have any form of agent running with any form of access. Which makes sense for any form of critical service we write, but I wouldn't have an issue having an AI deal with some "unimportant" internal application.
> Splitting your code up into multiple functions across multiple files is computer unfriendly code. It'll cause L1, L2 and L3 cache misses
I think you have no idea what you're talking about and trying to sound technical based on some concepts you misheard somewhere.
A lot of non-tech people got into "tech" in the last years not because they were passionate about technology but because they heard they could make more money there. This was possible due to VCs throwing around money at various software companies. As a result we get statements like yours. There is one thing that I am hopeful for with the AI bubble - which is the VCs panicking out because they think "everyone will vibecode an SaaS" - and pulling out of software companies investments, causing the folks like you to go back to whatever you were doing before and leaving software to people who actually know it and do it out of genuine interest and not primarily for the money.
I think it comes down to "it depends". I work in a NIS2 regulated field and we're quite callenged by the fact that it means we can't give AI's any sort of real access because of the security risk. To be complaint we'd have to have the AI agent ask permission for every single thing it does, before it does it, and foureye review it. Which is obviously never going to happen. We can discuss how bad the NIS2 foureye requirement works in the real world another time, but considering how easy it is to break AI security, it might not be something we can actually ever use. This makes sense on some of the stuff we work on, since it could bring an entire powerplant down. On the flip-side AI risks would be of little concern on a lot of our internal tools, which are basically non-regulated and unimportant enough that they can be down for a while without costing the business anything beyond annoyances.
This is where our challenges are. We've build our own chatbot where you can "build" your own agent within the librechat framework and add a "skill" to it. I say "skill" because it's older than claude skills but does exactly the same. I don't completely buy the authors:
> “deeply”, “in great details”, “intricacies”, “go through everything”
bit, but you can obviously save a lot of time by writing a piece of english which tells it what sort of environment you work in. It'll know that when I write Python I use UV, Ruff and Pyrefly and so on as an example. I personally also have a "skill" setting that tells the AI not to compliment me because I find that ridicilously annoying, and that certainly works. So who knows? Anyway, employees are going to want more. I've been doing some PoC's running open source models in isolation on a raspberry pi (we had spares because we use them in IoT projects) but it's hard to setup an isolation policy which can't be circumvented.
We'll have to figure it out though. For powerplant critical projects we don't want to use AI. But for the web tool that allows a couple of employees to upload three excel files from an external accountant and then generate some sort of report on them? Who cares who writes it or even what sort of quality it's written with? The lifecycle of that tool will probably be something that never changes until the external account does and then the tool dies. Not that it would have necessarily been written in worse quality without AI... I mean... Have you seen some of the stuff we've written in the past 40 years?
I work in a NIS2 regulated sector and I'm not sure we can ever let any AI agent run in anything we do. We have a centralized sollution where people can build their own chatbots with various configurations and cross models. That's in the isolation of the browser though, and while I'm sure employees are putting things into it they shouldn't, at least it's inside our setup and not in whatever chatbot they haven't yet run out of tokens on. Security wise though, I'm not sure how you can meet any form of compliance if you grant AI's access unless you have four eye validation on every single action it takes... which is just never going to happen.
We've experimented with rolling open source models on local hardware, but it's so easy to inject things into them that it's not really going anywhere. It's going to be a massive challenge, because if we don't provide the tools, employees are going to figure out how to do it on their own.
Even in the EU we can't use a lot of "society important" smartphone apps without Google Play or the Apple Store. I can get a physical key thing for my national digital ID, but I can't get anything for my bank, my healthcare (which is a public service in Denmark) or any of our national digital post services. You can apply to get exempt from the digital post services, and they do have a website sollution, but still.
Don't get me wrong. I appreachiate all the work being done to get Europe out of the claws of US tech companies, but I think having an official EU app store alternative would be a good start.
This doesn't help. Your contact number is shared by 50 parents' phone..are you sure of their security measures.
Even if I keep everything safe many govts are using Microsoft cloudfor day2day operations. Recently my employer lost tons of data. Every CV you send to a company or recruitment is kept often unencrypted. Every other country is fingerprinting/face ID upon arrival. Are you sure about their security?
Things that I have dumped into my email are far less consequential compared to those.
The game is lost. Very few people can have privacy.
You still have to get Google Play to get the apps. It's better but it's not like it makes us less reliant on Google in the current way these apps are distributed.
Parent mentioned not using the Play Store or the Apple Store. The hardware Graphene runs on is kind of irrelevant for that. I don't see a problem with paying Google for hardware that I am free to use as I like; unlike other manufacturers the bootloader is unlockable, which means the stock OS can be replaced.
Requiring a device from the same manufacturer as the OS as the only way to be free: there is really nothing you see contradictive in that? I mean, power to you!
You most likely can.[0] Of course, banks don't tend to advertise these kinds of authentication devices, probably because people tend to find apps easier, but you absolutely should be able to get one from your bank. It's very much not a Danske Bank specific technology, and it's explicitly there to allow for accessibility for those people without "suitable" phones, e.g. old people.
It's certainly not as convenient to use the online bank with a fob like this vis-à-vis a banking app, and we should absolutely push for banks to not be reliant on Google and Apple for their apps, but it is possible to use the services without being reliant on Google or Apple.
> my healthcare (which is a public service in Denmark) or any of our national digital post services. You can apply to get exempt from the digital post services, and they do have a website solution, but still.
Now admittedly I don't know how this stuff is over there in Denmark, but here in Finland we have access to the digital healthcare services via a website, both for the national patient database and the healthcare region access. Again, not as convenient as the respective apps -- although the app for the national patient database, OmaKanta, is very much in beta stages still, and it's way more convenient to use the website even on the phone -- but it's possible. I would be very surprised if that wasn't also possible over in Denmark.
And authentication can happen via couple means that aren't reliant on the smartphone duopoly, with authentication doable with online banking -- which as established, doesn't even need a phone -- and via a "phone authentication" which IIRC only needs support insofar as it's supported by the SIM card, and then of course authentication can be done with the national ID card and a smartcard reader.
And again, the point isn't that this kind of de-Googling or de-Appleing isn't difficult or inconvenient, or that we shouldn't improve the situation, but that it's absolutely possible to get away without using these vendors. And that we should make sure that these kinds of alternatives remain possible to use.
> Don't get me wrong. I appreachiate all the work being done to get Europe out of the claws of US tech companies, but I think having an official EU app store alternative would be a good start.
Bridgefy, Firechat, Bitchat and other bluetooth/wifi peer-to-peer SoMe's are great as long as you're enough people around. As long as you don't rely on one of the big tech app stores (or use an iPhone), it's not hard to get them even when the government is being tyrannical. It would be interesting to build something that would work over the various IoT networks which basically span all of Europe, but I guess that would be hard in countries where there are large areas of "nothing". It also depends on farmers choosing open source technology for their tech since you'd need a lot of farming IoT equipment to connect cross rural areas.
> It would be interesting to build something that would work over the various IoT networks which basically span all of Europe, but I guess that would be hard in countries where there are large areas of "nothing".
A portable device that could effortless hook up to the existing decentralized wireless networks would be even better, Freifunk covers large part of Germany, Guifi covers large parts of Spain, probably there are more somewhere else too, but AFAIK there is no portable device that lets you easily just connect and chat, still requires a bit of setup to participate.
Zig is a drop-in for C. I'm not sure what Rust is but around here no C++ teams seem to be adopting it. Zig on the other hand is seeing adoption in teams who write C for Python binaries. Not a whole lot of it since it's not exactly safe or "stable", but some. Now I'm aware that things like UV are build with Rust, but part of why UV is adopted so widely isn't just that it's fast. It's that it is a drop-in for pip, so that you can compile a requirements.txt and deploy your project without UV, which is handy when you use things like Azure specific Microsoft containers.
Maybe it's just C++ teams being conservative, but a lot of them really seem to hate Rust when you talk with them for whatever reason. I can't imagine why though, but then I've only ever worked with C when I had to, and I have never worked with C++. From having played around with both C++ and Rust, I'd personally pick Rust, but I'm sure it's because I don't know enough. Either way I doubt I'll ever see Rust in a real world job in my corner of the world.
First of all, if I am an evangelist of anything, it is about safe systems programming with automatic resource management languages, if I had a magic wand, we would be talking about languages like D and AOT C#, not Rust.
Secondly, let us know when Amazon rewrites Firecracker in Zig, Android replaces Rust with Zig, or Mark Russinovich goes to some Zig conference explaining why Azure is dropping Rust for Zig,
"Mark Russinovich, Microsoft Azure CTO tells Rust Nation UK 2025 why Azure is moving to Rust from C++"
The only Microsoft divisions that are still all are into C++ is Windows and XBox, and still, C++/WinRT is now in maintenace, the team has moved into windows-rs, WDK now has Rust bindings available.
Microsoft and IBM don't. Then they don't really post jobs for their own stuff. It's mainly to sell consultant services like selling Mainframe SWE's service to banks. If you mean jobs in my area in general then there are a lot of places that offer C++ jobs.
Couldn't you simply set up your own instance and link up with the wider network? I guess you would have to age verify yourself if you live in a country that requires it, but regulating that would be sort of hilarious.
Whether or not authorities with jurisdiction over you would notice your instance (homeserver) or bother you about age verification is an issue you'd have to consider for yourself.
I'm more familiar with Australian legislation than others, but here at least a home server would definitely not require age verification. Kids are free to make group chats with their friends in a bunch of services.
The spirit of the law is definitely not against chatting with friends, but it is against the idea of connecting minors with strangers, so while federation is generally not codified (or, IMO, understood well by legislators) and you're probably not going to be bothered by authorities about it, I reckon sooner or later the law will come for federated networks.
(Since we all seem fine just taking some uncertified random third party's word for it that their AI face recognition definitely didn't see a thumb with a face drawn on it, maybe it'd be adequate for Matrix.org to add an "18+ user" flag to the protocol and call it a day?)
Couldn't you simply set up your own instance and link up with the wider network?
I honestly have no idea. As much as they love money I am not paying my lawyers to research AI this one. I would probably wait for others to get made example of.
I think a lot of people, regardless of whether they vibe code or not are going to be replaced by a cheaper sollution. A lot of software that would've required programmers before can now be created by tech savy employees in their respective fields. Sure it'll suck, but it's not like that matters for a lot of software. Software Engineering and Computer Science aren't going away, but I suspect a lot of programming is.
I've been around for a while. The closest we ever got was probably RPA. This time it's different. In my organisation we have non-programmers writing software that brings them business value on quite a large scale. Right now it's mainly through the chat framework we provide them so that they aren't just spamming data into chatGPT or similar. A couple of them figured out how to work the API and set up their own agents though.
Most of it is rather terrible, but a lot of the times it really doesn't matter. At least most of it scales better than Excel, and for the most part they can debug/fix their issues with more prompts. The stuff that turns out to matter eventually makes it to my team, and then it usually gets rewritten from scratch.
I think you underestimate how easy it is to get something to work well enough with AI.
It does so with survailance and information. In a free democratic society you can jaywalk when no car is around and be ok. In a survailance state, you can't, because it'll hurt your social credit score. Similar to what we see in certain Asian countries, effectively making you a B class citizen. Jaywalking is just an example of course, because we've agreed that is technically illegal but basically every human when confronted with a situation like that outside of bureaucracy will think it's ok you crossed the completely empty road. They won't think it's ok if the road wasn't empty. Which is the nuance in the system, that the survailance bureaucracy doesn't have.
I like to think of it in dungeons and dragons alignments. Democracy is in the neutral zone, perhaps with a slight chaotic basis, but over all you don't want it to be either too lawful or too chaotic. If it goes too far either way the other side will suffer. The reason it can be a little biased toward chaotic is because chaotic people don't try to force their way on lawful people quite as much as the other way around.
I guess more working class men in America are lawful? Over all though, the people with the power will be the people with the information and the wealth to impact the bureaucracy.
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