This is something that my wife and I thought a lot about before we moved out here, and we still work hard to keep costs very lean and mean. So, I'll write a book for ya.

I've lived in Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Providence, Fresno and now the Bay Area. And, it's the most expensive city we've lived in. There is usually a gentleman's competition ongoing as to what area is more expensive to live in: Bay Area or New York City. I think that Manhattan generally wins as to a specific region, but if compared to New York City as a whole, I think that Silicon Valley probably wins the competition.

It's expensive.

But, you can make it work for you. It just takes work, and a willingness to do stuff differently than you're used to.

If you're moving here, consider Craigslist to be your Bible for rental listings. Every one advertises on Craigslist, even the large corporate apartment complexes. Search around there for a few months. Then use the neighborhood designations that Craigslist uses to research the specific neighborhoods that you're interested in.

As to what your burn rate will be in the Valley, it all depends on how you want to live. If you're going to share an apartment with roommates and eat ramen noodle/frankfurter surprise 3 meals a day that will cut costs dramatically. If you want to get your own studio or one bedroom and eat out at Chez Snooteee 7 days a week, that raises prices a lot.

Also, where you live matters a great deal in how much you pay for rent. San Francisco and Palo Alto are the two highest rent areas in the Valley. Prices go down the further out you live from there. East Bay prices tend to be quite a bit lower, but commutes can be quite nasty because of having to cross the Bay on one of the bridges. We found San Jose to be a great compromise. It's a nice city, getting around is pretty easy, has a decent little downtown for events/entertainment and rents are pretty reasonable considering the area. And, I commute opposite traffic because I work nights.

Food prices in the grocery stores are about 30% higher than we've paid in Boston, although there's ways around that. Safeway.com actually lets you order groceries online, and their prices are exactly the same in store as they are online. (We've researched it). But if you want to get a feel for what your grocery bill will be, save your receipt from your next trip to the grocery store, and create an account and a shopping list at: http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 You can then compare the two and figure out what you'll be spending on groceries at the store.

Gas prices are usually 20-30% higher than the rest of the nation, with gas in San Fran usually topping the national price charts. Gas is about $3.50 right now for us in San Jose.

Restaurants are anywhere from %30-50 more expensive in the Bay area. After you've done your neighborhood research on Craigslist, look at Yelp.com for restaurants in that area, and look at their menu's. You'll see what I mean. My wife and I routinely drop $50-80 for dinner with a glass of wine at a mid priced restaurant like the Olive Garden. Back East, that'd be $30-50 a dinner.

Electric bills are some of the highest in the nation. We rent a 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose, and our electric heating bill for Nov-Fev usually runs between $300-400 a month. If you can rent a place with utilities included, you're in luck. You only need air conditioning for 2-3 weeks out of the year in the South Bay. You probably don't need it in San Fran.

Water and trash is $50 a month.

Rents go down about %10-20 during winter and around Christmas, and up an additional %10-20 during the summer. So, if you move out here, you can get the cheapest rents in January or early December. It's a terrible time to move, but it really makes a difference when your paying $1800 for a 3 bed 2 bath house as opposed to $2400.

Cable and Internet are comparable to %20 higher than elsewhere.

If you can, get a place with utilities included. It's worth the extra money in rent. Utilities out here are expensive.

Public transportation stinks compared to Boston, New York or Chicago. People out here are thrilled that they can occasionally ride it to an event down town. It's rare that people use it to commute every day. However, people in San Fran can get by without a car. You can't in the rest of the area. A new perk some of the larger companies (Google, VMware) are offering is shuttle service to and from work. If you can land a job with a perk like that it'll save you $100-200 a month in gas depending on your car.

We rent that 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose for about $2100 a month. It was more expensive to rent a house, but it gives us a lot more room for stuff, which ends up making in more economical for us in the long run. Here's what we did: We've turned our garage in to a mini warehouse lined with shop shelves, and we shop in bulk at CostCo (www.CostCo.com). I mean ++shop_in_bulk++. We buy 4-5 months of staples, paper goods, meat, office supplies at CostCo. We also have 2 freezers to store meat, prepared meals, etc... And, we're able to rent out a room to family. Yeah, it's a little weird, but it works for us.

There is great shopping in the area. Ikea is for all your furniture and low end household stuff. You can get great deals at Fry's electronics if you watch their sales papers. And, for everything else, shop at the Gilroy Outlets. They are actual outlets that sell overstock and seconds. They really are some of the best outlets in Northern California, and you can get some amazing deals on great products. Because of that, we actually pay less for household goods and clothes than we did living anywhere else.

All that being said, moving here is the hardest part financially. After you get here, things even out a bit, and salaries are high enough that they generally compensate for the high cost of living.

Good luck.

django.

I used news.yc to make someone happy the other day. There was a new user that didn't understand why he was getting downmodded so I told him the reason. It seemed like karma really meant a lot to him so I upvoted all of his stories and current comments, giving him an extra 20 karma points. In an economy with infinite karma, I didn't think it was a big deal to arbitrarily give him more. I think he was joking a little when he said it "made his month" but hopefully I made him smile.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=125233

Paul Graham told me via email that up and downarrows aren't for arbitrary karma operations and then a couple days later he took away my ability to vote on any comment or story. I upvoted this story to 4 but it didn't count because I can't vote anymore. I find the whole scenario somewhat bizarre.

"Can entrepreneurs be sued by their funders for fraud? Yes."

Are they ever? No.

This article is a strangely mixed bag. Some of these points are right and some are wrong. Like worrying about being sued by investors; I've never once heard of that happening to a tech startup doing a series A round.

The number one legal problem for early stage startups is unclear title to their IP-- e.g. because they took code from a former employer. That is the only really fatal mistake. Most other things can be fixed later.

A lot of the comments here seem to think you can dismiss an article by detecting its bias. You need to actually refute an argument with facts to to dismiss it right?

I stopped using web.py after I had to correct Aaron when he recommended a 'session' implementation that had a massive gaping security hole.

http://groups.google.com/group/webpy/browse_thread/thread/2f...

If he couldn't spot that when he posted, I don't trust him to spot any other problems with web.py